Kudos . . . from a knowledgeable fan

[Toast]

Plus it's worth considering that some of the calls may be made while pulling a few G's which might result in a call being a shout. Just remember that the real Thunderbirds are a team of professionals at the absolute top of their game, do you think it likely that any of their actions would be careless enough to cause a distraction or a danger to the rest of the team? That's a bit like hearing a tape of Michael Schumacher conversing with the Pit Crew and suggesting that he might win more races if he shut up and paid more attention to the road! They know what they're doing believe me, but they also have to have a bit of individuality and some fun too!

As to the rules since the 70's, they did have a lot fewer regulations back then I guess, but as I understand it they still have the option to tighten things up and drop a few altitudes as the season progresses and the pilots become ever more familiar with the maneuvers. This particularly applies to the solos.

[LeadSolo2002]

I couldn't have answered any of those questions better myself. The radio calls are really are matter of the Boss's personality and preferences. My first year JV made some crazy ounding calls, but there were in a cadence that let us know how his timing was going, how he was feeling, and how he thought the show was going. Flippant and fun at times, deadly serious at others. You need it when you do the show so much to break the monotony. When you find yourself balancing the checkbook at the top of a Delta Loop, sometimes some energy on the radio is a good thing.
Now, as for the Solos, it is a combination of two things. Adrenalin, and the need to cut through the diamond chatter. The Boss is the only one who turns up the Uniform in the Diamond. The rest usually turn down uniform to hear him better on Victor. The Solos have to hear both radios clear, and hear each other over it all to make timing correction for the whole show. Joker and Tales and I usually probably sounded more like we were yelling when the show was going well and the timing was tight. As was said, that is a combo of g on the jet, and just having a helluva good time.
The rules for the show minimums and distance from the crowd changed in the wake of the Ramstein airshow crash in '88. The 500' min over the crowd and the "no energy directed at the crowd" both came as a result and have changed the Sneak Pass, the Cross-over Break etc. Too bad, but safer for the crowd and still can be done so they are exciting. Empasis is always safety of the crowd, safety of the jets, and safety of the slugs flying them. Timing and visuals become more important than just noise.
Best to all,

Norm

[TBT_Piper]

Very enlightening thread. Great questions with great answers.

[Lawndart]

Left solo 5-ship used to be way shorter than right solo 5 ship with 5 card, Line break, Hi-lo hit etc.

I suggest you guys bring back the high aoa pass or the solo spiral (see Dawg Lewis ’94)

Norm,

I gotta tell ya, I just finished reading "We Rode the Thunder" 50th anniversary book that has some great stories and your posts have the same effect. I can't get enough of this stuff! Learning all this history, crazy stuff and how things are or were done just makes us want to try this in the sim even more. It's always a pleasure to see you back here in the forum!

I pasted some of what you wrote previously at the top of this post. Just curious how the 5-ships used to be setup? Left profile being shorter than right etc. Honestly, I didn't even know these had been flown with a "lefty" before.

We are planning to fly the High Alfa pass in our video, but also include several old school maneuvers/formations (hence why we flew an 8-ship formation the other day ). I've been trying to find out what the solo spiral is, but I can't find a reference? I think I know, but with so many other things on my mind I don't want to guess. Any chance you'd be willing to give us a quick run down of this maneuver?

Cya and thanks again!

LawnDart

P.S. I have a list of 16 or so vintage Tbird maneuvers/formations, some of which we might do. Any particular favorites you'd like to see brought back all the way from 1953-present? I personally think the Rollback to Arrowhead is pretty cool... remains to be seen if that can be done over the internet (with lag) though...

[lieutfunaki]

Boss, maybe this isn't the right place for this question, but I'm just wondering if the VTB have performed the low altitude show as well? If not, perhaps this is something to try...

[Lawndart]

Smuckers,

Not quite sure if you're getting at a "low-altitude" show or the low-show. As far as I know the Thunderbirds have 3 type of shows they fly during airshows. The high-show, low-show and flat-show. These names refer to how high they can go based on the ceiling, not anything that allows them to fly lower or closer to the crowd. Any given day the optimal show is always the high-show since it allows them to perform vertical maneuvers such as cloverleaf loops, arrowhead etc. The low-show eliminates those and the flat-show even eliminates maneuvers like the diamond roll and it their place only maneuvers that are non-vertical what-so-ever. The min altitude still remains the same though and based on scores throughout the season on their performance that would allow them to lower the deck.

Since we are in control of the weather in Lock-On we fly the high-show and this is the show by choice, although just for kicks it's cool to try some of the formations they do fly-by's in during the other type of shows. Going to airshows I always got bummed when I saw a cloud deck roll in, cause IMHO the best show is always a high-show and any ceiling can limit (not cancel I might add) the show really fast!

LawnDart

[lieutfunaki]

Yeah, I recognized the definition...my interest was just whether the team had practiced the low show.

[LeadSolo2002]

We are planning to fly the High Alfa pass in our video, but also include several old school maneuvers/formations (hence why we flew an 8-ship formation the other day ). I've been trying to find out what the solo spiral is, but I can't find a reference? I think I know, but with so many other things on my mind I don't want to guess. Any chance you'd be willing to give us a quick run down of this maneuver?

Lawndart:

I am glad about the high-aoa pass. The problem with it is that it slows down the show drastically. Our plan was to put it back in only if we could reduce the set-up time so as to make it basically a hockey stop at show center, and then a max perf climb out of it.

As for the spiral. i had the smae troubles myself when I was trying to look at putting it back in the show. I am not the best source on that one. I will have to talk to more pre-94 solos to help you on that one.

I can't wait to see the new video.

Best of luck. Take care.

Norm

[Cobra]

Hey Norm, did you get my email re the magazine article?.. If not can you get in touch with me please?

Regards

[LeadSolo2002]

Sorry I have been out of touch for a few weeks . . . . getting my family moved and situated. I would like to help out. Check your email.

Norm