VFAT 2007

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:02 am

Ells wrote:Dates are good for the VRA too.

The good thing about the mission file that we all use is the markers, so the camera man should be able to find us all on the given display schedule.

E.g. 2mins 34 marker 10 to loop over SC out to marker 8

As long as we all agree the terminology to use, it should be ok.

If you're saying that we're going to be looking around at other jets with different views, I would have to say that the F11 view at show center/the crowd line works the best, and just to leave it there. A lot of our maneuvers (and I am sure the VTB as well) are based and profiled to look correctly from the crowd perspective. I think keeping it at the F11 view will really give it that REAL airshow feel, with music and narration.

Marker wise, we will use our server with our markers, which are slightly different from anyone elses I've seen.

....Eagerly awaiting the VFAT thread!

Frazer · Post by **Frazer** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:21 pm

VFAT 2007 Preliminary Registration Thread can be found here:
http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=25264

@LawnDart, I just gave this event the name "Russian VFAT" because there isn't really a name for it. It is more like an aerobatic competition with different simulators. It isn't really a big event, though apparently big enough for the Russian RTR news crew to come over

In the interview they asked things like how I became WR's leader and how we communicate (since i'm Dutch and the rest of the team is Russian).
BTW, the Simulator World is much more alive in Russia (Moscow) than in Holland, I'm really surprised about that......when I tell people about Virtual Formation Aerobatics in my country they just look at me with glassy eyes and say "aha...". No matter how hard I try to explane to people how close this comes to reality......they always say....but this is just a game right?

In Moscow I felt some appreciation for the first time......that was good

Ells · Post by **Ells** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:30 am

Rhino wrote:
Ells wrote:Dates are good for the VRA too.

The good thing about the mission file that we all use is the markers, so the camera man should be able to find us all on the given display schedule.

E.g. 2mins 34 marker 10 to loop over SC out to marker 8

As long as we all agree the terminology to use, it should be ok.
If you're saying that we're going to be looking around at other jets with different views, I would have to say that the F11 view at show center/the crowd line works the best, and just to leave it there. A lot of our maneuvers (and I am sure the VTB as well) are based and profiled to look correctly from the crowd perspective. I think keeping it at the F11 view will really give it that REAL airshow feel, with music and narration.

Marker wise, we will use our server with our markers, which are slightly different from anyone elses I've seen.

....Eagerly awaiting the VFAT thread!

I think the F11 SC (crowd line) view is the one to go with. I'm pretty sure all of our displays, VBA, VTB, VRA, Etc. are all over SC with maybe some formation transitions at outer markers, but the camera man could zoom in on those if it's scripted.

Man it feels good registering for this years VFAT

Post by **Lawndart** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:24 am

Ells wrote:...maybe some formation transitions at outer markers, but the camera man could zoom in on those if it's scripted.

This is exactly why whomever is operating the view that's being streamed needs to know the sequence of when and where to look! We don't want them to follow our repo turns, simply because everyone would miss half the action in between. If the smoke is turned off, you'd better start looking in a new direction, because at least with our show (Blue Angels would be similar), as the formation is turning around, the Solos to their thing. Sometimes individually, sometimes together and the interval timing has gotten so tight for us now that if you keep following the Diamond for an additional 15 seconds after they clear the show line, you've already missed at least one other maneuver. It's not an easy feat to put together a full show with timing that consistent and with no room for being early or late over a series of 35+ maneuvers total, and we just don't want a camera man to goof that up for our viewers!

It truly deserves someone who's read up on the script, otherwise every single person watching the streaming will miss out!

Tailhook · Post by **Tailhook** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:17 am

gotta love the VFAT "threat"

I am still unsure about what we would do.

Ells · Post by **Ells** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:11 am

Lawndart wrote:
Ells wrote:...maybe some formation transitions at outer markers, but the camera man could zoom in on those if it's scripted.
This is exactly why whomever is operating the view that's being streamed needs to know the sequence of when and where to look! We don't want them to follow our repo turns, simply because everyone would miss half the action in between. If the smoke is turned off, you'd better start looking in a new direction, because at least with our show (Blue Angels would be similar), as the formation is turning around, the Solos to their thing. Sometimes individually, sometimes together and the interval timing has gotten so tight for us now that if you keep following the Diamond for an additional 15 seconds after they clear the show line, you've already missed at least one other maneuver. It's not an easy feat to put together a full show with timing that consistent and with no room for being early or late over a series of 35+ maneuvers total, and we just don't want a camera man to goof that up for our viewers!

It truly deserves someone who's read up on the script, otherwise every single person watching the streaming will miss out!

Yeah I hear ya and fully agree LD
That's why I think a joint decision on the terminoligy for the camera man script needs to be sorted out (only a minor thing in the grand scheme of things).
We have a manouver where the Synchro pair split from the diamond, if the camera man focuses on the diamond, you'll miss the synchro moves. I think we're all in the same boat.

Frazer · Post by **Frazer** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:48 am

Viper101 wrote:gotta love the VFAT "threat"

I am still unsure about what we would do.

I also ROFLMAO when I saw this "mistake"

Its corrected

Post by **Lawndart** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:35 pm

Ells wrote:That's why I think a joint decision on the terminoligy for the camera man script needs to be sorted out (only a minor thing in the grand scheme of things).

Suggested terminology
Left/Right
Ahead and to the Left/Right
Behind and to the Left/Right
From in front
From behind

(All 8 directions!).

My point is that whomever is planning on working the view for streaming needs to put in some effort and practice into it before the show. I can guarantee you that if even the best camera operator with "proper terminology" shows up the day of, thinking it will be a piece of cake - there will be dozens of maneuvers missed between all the flying and in the end most of the discussions about the weekend will turn into topics about how bad the camera guy was. Trust me! It already happened earlier this year in real life, and there's no reason it should happen again with some logistics...

If I was capturing the streaming view, I'd get in touch with each team prior to the rehearsal weekend and have each team give me a quick brief on the show and send me a show program with the terminology and sequence of maneuvers listed. Then practice some of the capturing during the rehearsal, and for the teams not present, see if I could get a LOMAC track to practice on. It wouldn't take long (FAST FWD), but just to be able to find each maneuver on the show program sent to me.

@JaBog: When we know if the streaming has been worked out, there should be an announcement who will be working the camera no later than before the rehearsal weekend IMHO and then have the contact for each team (listed in the prelim reg thread) send this person their show program (and a quick brief/track if possible).

So, far it looks like the teams signed up are all in the ~40-60 minute range of aerial displays. That's great news, since the focus should be on formation aerobatics.

JaBoG32_Laud · Post by **JaBoG32_Laud** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:09 pm

Lawndart wrote: @JaBog: When we know if the streaming has been worked out, there should be an announcement who will be working the camera no later than before the rehearsal weekend IMHO and then have the contact for each team (listed in the prelim reg thread) send this person their show program (and a quick brief/track if possible).

So, far it looks like the teams signed up are all in the ~40-60 minute range of aerial displays. That's great news, since the focus should be on formation aerobatics.

1st) Of course there will be an announcement if we get it working!!!

And yes, we'll do everything possible to get the cam-guy into the topic as fast and as good as possible.

2nd) Yeah, I also thought "wow, until now it's kind of "top of the pops" of the aerobatic scene. Also I prefer having teams in the show as solo displays are pretty cool in RL because you can hear/feel the roaring of a jet engine but it's less impressive when flown in the virtual skies. So yes, I agree focus should be on aerobatic teams.

Gonna be a spectacular schedule I guess!

An idea about granting a proper grade of quality: Maybe newcomers to the show should have to send in a track to let us check if they're "ready" for the job. Would be a shame to "waste" time (which we always haven't enough of...) on a bad performance.
Or otherwise: Maybe declaring a kind of a "newcomer-slot" (or two, or three...). The best incoming track would get that slot to perform on VFAT. The idea behind: Of course newcomers should get their chance, but it would suck to spend too much time in too much not ready trained teams performing on the event. All this would at last depend on how many teams (new teams) sign up finally. Just some thoughts...

Post by **Lawndart** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:54 pm

Good thoughts Laud! Let's see what number of signups the prelim thread brings and determine how dense the schedule will be during the weekend.

If needed, I think it's a great way to "qualify" for remaining time slots, but IMO there needs to be only one judge to determine this; the JaBoG team, since you guys were the first to host the event in '05 and as "owners" it would be easier if the official yes/no came from that one source. If necessary of course...

I agree on the Solo acts providing some flavor in between "powerhouse" teams of 6+ jets, as long as the Solo displays are in the ~15 minute time range. It wouldn't be hard to get a good mix of demo teams and solo acts as long as everyone sticks to something like a 3-1 ratio. If a demo team flies for approx ~45 minutes (1 hour with taxing, parking and ground ops etc) a solo should plan on no more than a ~15 minute show (20 minutes with ground ops).

Just some ideas...

TomcatFan · Post by **TomcatFan** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:38 pm

Hello everyone. I have been reading these boards for awhile and really am amazed at that you guys can do. I am womdering is there anyway for someone to be able to watch the airshow online? Thanks

Tailhook · Post by **Tailhook** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:16 pm

TomcatFan wrote:Hello everyone. I have been reading these boards for awhile and really am amazed at that you guys can do. I am womdering is there anyway for someone to be able to watch the airshow online? Thanks

If you have Lock On: Modern Air Combat with Flaming Cliffs version 1.12a/b, you are able to. Or if we can get the live streaming issue working, you could connect VIA IP address and watch like that. If you have LOMAC, it would be best to use the F11 view to scroll around the airport and put the camera to watch from Show Center.

Kato · Post by **Kato** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:52 pm

We'd be willing to have the camera person come into our practices any time from here on out so they get it right on the day.

Perhaps we can post for some volunteers and pick one from a couple of applicants?

Just a thought.

JaBoG32_Laud · Post by **JaBoG32_Laud** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:47 pm

As far as I understand the technical setup so far the camera man will be the one whose computer is the streaming one. This means the choice will be made by technical reasons.

About making decissions:
Yesterday I was talikng to frazer and we had the idea of founding a "VFAT-Staff-Crew". The members will be representives of the participating aerobatic teams (1 of each, limitation: Team must have participated in min 1 prior VFAT) plus one (maybe two but with just one vote) representative of JaBoG32. The staff crew will be put together in aprox one week. I'll setup a subforum for this plus we can have a first TS meeting then. I hope all are happy with this way. Should speed up decissions but also involving every party of participants.

About the streaming:
There seems to be light at the end of the tunnel!

Updates will follow...

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 am

JaBoG32_Laud wrote: About the streaming:
There seems to be light at the end of the tunnel!
Updates will follow...

Is it a police strobe/search light or a mini-candle?

JK, thats awesome news. Just wondering, where would this sub-forum be located, your forum? If it is in your forum, Ich spreche nicht Deutsches..