Steve's Airshow World - 2007 Atlantic City Airshow

Post by **Lawndart** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:46 am

August 15, 2007; Thunder over the Boardwalk, Atlantic City, NJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZGc9STWc9k

Where to start??? This video had so many things go awry, but I'll just mention a handful I caught the first time watching it. I'm sure there's much more to add.

#6 misses the hit on the OpKE pretty bad, possibly even an abort (couldn't tell for sure).
#6 only does 3 rolls in the Aileron Rolls instead of the normal 4.
#7 "steps" on Boss three times in a row trying to get a word in edgewise after the T-D Clover to tell him: "Smoke Boss" after he forgets to turn it off when #4 called in. (Con, take note of how calmly he said that too!)
Combo finally started rolling through inverted during the Hi-Lo Hit Rejoin instead of leveling over the top, but then had to fight the winds and didn't make it in on time for the Five Card transition. Boss: "Setting up for the Stinger Loop" - #2: "Got it Boss!".
In the middle of the D360 something happens and they all abort, go route and continue circling... Then #6 rejoins to Stinger and they fly the Five Card Loop with a #6 Out at the bottom, then spread out again for a repo pass to finally resume the D360 with the Blue Rejoin. #5 must have had a problem?
They struggle on the Delta Rejoin and the Solos don't make it in on time, so the BUP is flown Smoke Off. Then on the Delta Roll Boss forgets to turn Smoke Off after the roll and calls for it On again right before the Delta Loop even though it's already On... Phew! I like this old way of seeing the Delta whiffers though, kind of nice! The show reminds me of our "case of the Mondays" practices though! ...but it's about to get even uglier.
You can hear the call: "Setting Up for the HiBB, One's on Time - Two's minus -1 - Three's (?) - Four's On Tiiime". Pretty neat to finally get one on comms. #5's RTB and there's no Hit. Then on the Bomb Burst Cross you can hear: "6,000 - Tally 1-2, Two's Aborting, Gotya One". ...and just when you think that was bad enough, they setup for another HiBB, since the Solo's are already RTB. Four runs out of smoke on the Bomb Burst Break, then Two runs out during the Split S (you can hear the call for it too) and the BB Cross is again a total abomination with #4 going RTB right after the hit. #1, 2 and 3 join up on the HiBB Rejoin, but only #1 uses Smoke, since everyone else is out. Time to call it a day!

Watching this feels like a bad hangover from an ugly practice. Kind of interesting, but painful at the same time! We can definitely relate though...

If nothing else, it shows how darn hard it is to do what these demo teams (usually) do pretty close to spotless each weekend, and for me seeing this only makes me appreciate the good shows even more! It looks easy when everything is going according to plan...

Thumper · Post by **Thumper** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:22 am

Here is the blurb from the guy that posted the video:

2007 Thunder Over the Boardwalk Airshow
Atlantic City, NJ (Boardwalk)
Tuesday August 14, 2007

IN THIS VIDEO, watch as the Thunderbirds perform their high practice show over Atlantic City, which was terminated several times to get the show lines mastered. You are being treated to a performance without any narration, but you will get to hear the boss call the maneuvers for the diamond.

www.stevesairshow.com .

Ells · Post by **Ells** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:14 am

Ouch, not a good show, but like you say LD, it makes you appreciate what they do even more.

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:44 am

Looks like they had an offshore wind and typical hazy conditions along the NJ coast line. #2's minus -1 call on the HiBB would confirm that, since he'd be pulling early back inbound for the Bomb Burst Cross. Tough conditions to fly in; over water, haze and a wind coming off land (not your typical summer sea breeze).

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:04 pm

Hey guys remember that was just the practice show, if you watch the actual demonstration video from wednesday it's nearly a perfect show.

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:09 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvX97KvxMjo

BonJobie · Post by **BonJobie** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:51 pm

Practice show doesn't mean mistake show. As I am sure you know they strive for every practice show to be as good as every scheduled show; some days it just doesn't come together as others. . . .boy, don't I know that.

Bon

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:57 pm

FutureThunderbirds, Thanks for pointing that out, totally fooled me!

The show demo was far better! Boss still forgot to turn Smoke Off after the Delta Roll and called for it back on again for the Delta Loop, even though it was already on. Nice timing on the hit by Pinto for the Bomb Burst!

"Like a freight train coming at you when the wake turbulence hits"!

About the practice shows, many of the ones I've seen have been better than the actual shows, especially the one last year @ Nellis! The practice show was the best show! Plus, you usually get a bonus maneuver or two at the end as well which is always fun!

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:48 pm

Lawndart wrote:About the practice shows, many of the ones I've seen have been better than the actual shows, especially the one last year @ Nellis! The practice show was the best show! Plus, you usually get a bonus maneuver or two at the end as well which is always fun!

The remote show practices seem to be a bit more "interesting". Maybe due to a lack of reference point with no runways and a not so defined show line? I know the practice I saw a couple of years ago at a remote show (was at an airshow with a short runway, so they had to stage elsewhere), they were all over the place with their centerpoint locations. Even got a high-alpha right over my head (no not exaggerating like Tailhook) as he was right over where the crowd would have been. I thought 7 was going to kill him over the radio...

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:56 pm

Any show along the east coast is typically hard, with the often hazy conditions. Jones Beach earlier this year was very hazy too, same as Ft. Lauderdale back in May, although several years ago (2001 I think), the practice show in Daytona Beach rocked! I remember the T-D BUP was right in our faces, and they did fly it the same way the following day too!

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:43 pm

I know they strive for perfection every time, but I just wanted to make sure you all knew that it was just the practice and not their actual demonstration. I’m sure they were just trying to get used to the show site, however by the middle of august you would hope that even their practice show would be better than that. But hey, they obviously put it all together for the actual show.

Metro · Post by **Metro** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:06 am

Got to remember. Practice is a practice. When I worked the airshow in Norfolk the T-birds and Blues would set up practice not specifically to perform a show but to survey the airfield and surrounding area.

T-bird/Blues would normally arrive on the Wed or Thur prior to the show and do a mini practice upon arrival to get the lay of the land. On Friday before the Sat/Sun show, the would "survey" the area by putting on a "show" for the military members and not the public.

At Chambers Field, we would have to set up a "fake" runway on the infield with markers so that the teams would adhere to the FAA guide lines for specific lateral distances from the crowd during the show. They never used the actual runway 10/28. 1500' is the number I remember during those days. The FAA was there and observing all facets of the practice and the show and the performers were debriefed by the FAA on the legalities of the performance. It is very hard to visually see the "Virtual" runway at speeds these guys are flying and to remember their checkpoints for the various entry and exit points for their manuvers.

Other airfeilds are also in close proximity playing a key factor in the manuvers performed. Norfolk International was always a problem for the performers due to inablity of that airport to close or close for a very limited time during the show. So they had to always work around that airfield. Not much room.

So, Practice doesn't always mean it is going to look like the show for the general public on "Show Day". I saw many practices in Norfolk that did not come close to looking like the show on the weekend. In Atlantic City, they did not have the luxury as at a military installation to close the practice to the viewing public.

These guy get to see these airfields maybe once or twice during their career as a performer and these fields are not as familiar as Nellis, Pensacola or El Centro. They get one maybe two practices to get the lay of the land. I would imagine it is even harder for those over water without references.

Metro

Metro · Post by **Metro** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:15 am

Oh, Just to give you guys an example as to the problems the surrounding area can cause, We had an incedent in Norfolk that did not make a lot of people very happy especially with the Norfolk International ATC. During a practice one year, the T-bird's lead made a rolling right turn after bringing the delta over runway 10 taking the entire team into and though Norfolk's airspace during normal airport operations. He was not aware of the airport traffic area to the southwest and enter their airspace. Luckily no mishap occured and the next two days went on without incedent.

He was not familar with the area.

Metro

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:59 am

To give some people "not in the know" an idea of what we are talking about with a "show-line", here is an image from a Blues practice last year at Davenport. (This is a remote show as the runway is too short). You can see the line intersecting with the crossing runway, marked by white plastic sheeting, and the crowd line is where the tents and such are. As you can see, it is further than it really looks.

EDIT: Picture resized for forum friendly size by Moderator.

Metro · Post by **Metro** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:21 am

Nice example

Metro