McGuire AFB show... and High Def video...

Discussions about the U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron
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Burner
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Post by Burner » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:10 pm

afneer wrote:Anyone else notice the solo's aileron rolls? There was definitely some rudder/elevator input. I never realized they did that but always thought it was just aileron snap rolls. A bit more risk factor I would think.
Be sure not to mix your terms Afneer- an aileron roll is a pure aileron roll, a snap roll is accomplished with pitch and yaw. But yes to make nice level continuous rolls all the control surfaces must be coordinated.

Now in an F-16 this is largely accomplished by the Flight Control Computer- to get in depth the F-16s FLCC is a Pitch Rate Command system. This means that moving the stick tells the jet to move its nose around in the air and if you release the stick the FLCC will keep the nose where you point it until told otherwise. This is unique from most aircraft with FLCC's, the F/A-18 and F-15 have the more standard a pitch trim system, meaning they are constantly seeking 1.0g when the stick is in the neutral position, meaning if you pitch the nose up and roll over the aircraft will seek 1.0g and the nose will fall of its own accord. In LOMAC we fly the F-15 which has the pitch trim system, this means that when we do continuous aileron rolls we must constantly fight the aircrafts tendency to nose down when inverted. This leads to the technique of pushing and pulling while rolling to keep the nose nicely pointed just above the horizon. But in a real F-16 pitch coordination is handled by the FLCC and I'm pretty sure the pilot does not have to jump all over the pitch and rudder inputs, the magic box does it all for him.

Sorry about the information overkill :? Hope that answered your question.
afneer
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Post by afneer » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:09 pm

Sorry for the wrong use of terms and thanks for the reply. I had assumed the solo's rolls were similar to what I see from the VTB...that is rolls purely around the longtitudinal axis only (not sure if I spelt that right but I think you get the drift). Instead I saw the nose corkscrewing, for lack of a better term, comparable to when he corkscrews vertically in the high performance climb.

I guess I don't only confuse terms but I confused the real TB's form the vTB's. :roll:
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:28 pm

While I'm not sure how much of the real world technique is individual vs. procedural, the majority of the years this maneuver has been flown the Solo has set a certain load (tenth of a G) on the plane and begun rolling around the longitudinal axis. Just as you observed, I too, have noticed that "Combo" is fish-tailing the aircraft a bit more than I've seen the Solo do in past years. Why I don't know?

Ironically, the LOMAC procedure of pushing and correcting during each revolution turns out to match the real world procedure of setting G and rolling more closely when viewed. Our revamped procedure matches the look of that in real life (pre-'07). Besides, we're flying F-15 models... prior to the Thunderbirds, "Combo" was an Eagle driver! Not that it has any bearing or meaning aside from coincidence and irony!

[quote="Shawn "Norm" Pederson, Thunderbird Solo, 2001-2002"]The g for the vertical rolls must be 0 to .8 to avoid F-16 roll coupling (bad news) same on the aileron rolls. Makes a nice spiral if you do it right and don’t have to rest the g while rolling.[/quote]

Taking this into account, it would appear "Combo" might be resetting the G while rolling... :?
necigrad
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Post by necigrad » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:08 am

Thanks for posting like that. Makes viewing far more enjoyable! :D
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Ells
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Post by Ells » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:37 am

Thanks for the video TakeOne, excellent work!
And thanks LD for the description, very imformative :D

Did they do the crossover break?
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:57 am

I'm sure they did. Guessing takeone missed or wasn't happy with the footage on several of the maneuvers not shown in his vid... :? :wink:
takeone
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Post by takeone » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:58 pm

Bomburst and crossover are on the video....around 8:45 into the video...

I'm compressing a HD version of the video...and I'll post it on my website...where the other file is. Looks ALOT better...of course.
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Ells
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Post by Ells » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:23 pm

Ah must have missed it, thanks again.
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Cinch
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Post by Cinch » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:10 pm

takeone,

what camera did you use? I have a Sony HDV-FX7 I have had only one airshow to test it out on! But if you look over in the lockon.ru you will find a thread for HD airshow footage. its in full 1080i !
takeone
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Post by takeone » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:50 pm

Cinch...
I have a Canon XL H1
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/contr ... elid=12152

We use it professionally for clients. 20x zoom lens...

Makes unbelievable pictures....just shooting HDV....if we pump the signal into a DVCPro HD deck at 100 megabits....it's even better !
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