Maneuver List for Photo Shoot

WCD-01/WILDCAT · Post by **WCD-01/WILDCAT** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:16 pm

hey guys im seein the tbirds again for the first time in 5 years this october, and i need to get some good shots if possible, i have another friend into photography and shes goin to help me get the shots i want, so just wondering if theres a way if like one of you see the show or wahetever i can get a list of the show routine so she and i can memorize it ?

Cinch · Post by **Cinch** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:51 pm

Search our forums and you will find a list. Also check our download section, I am pretty sure Lawndart has the show program on there in a word doc!

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:10 pm

There's a list of the maneuvers in show order if you click on one of the sticky threads in this forum (Thunderbird Air Show Music).

Other than the list, I'd suggest "practice viewing" the show from one of the latest 2006 videos at: http://www.stevesairshow.com/videos.html

Several of those have been posted about in threads in our Pilot Lounge forum as well. The newer ones from '06 contain uninterrupted video from the start of the air show until the end. Check those out!

Post by **Gunner** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:24 pm

There is also a movie called "Smoke On" that follows the complete high show from some great camera angles!

viewtopic.php?t=1452

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:25 pm

No kidding! Good point Gunner!

WCD-01/WILDCAT · Post by **WCD-01/WILDCAT** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:26 pm

hmm thanks for the suggestions, but lets also remember i have a girl that knows nothing about air shows except planes fly around, i have to teach her everything and tell her the shots im trying to get

Cinch · Post by **Cinch** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:42 pm

Thats when you take our list and have it in front of her and say things like this!!

Look Left
Look Right
Behind You
Up High

Just remember what side they are flying in from!

And if she has never shot an airshow, well there will be a good chance that she might not get many great shots, 3 things you must have to shoot airshows.

1.) Long lens (at least a 200mm Zoom (Usually about $1,000)for the great shots sometimes a 300mm (About $2,000 to $3,000) Wide angle zoom (18mm-70mm good for static shots)

2.)Fast FPS, yea I said FPS and I dont mean (First Person Shooter) Frame per second, At the best I would have atleast 4 to 5 frames per sec, most prosumer cams have about 2 to 3 with a shutter lag time of a few ms, A few ms can cause you to loose great shots, (I know of this first hand).

3. Location, Location, Location.... Get there early, Show center and stay there, airshows are usually 2 and 3 day events depending on the weather pic the best day to shoot the demos, then fill in the time with the static aircraft, one thing I have learned dont go anywhere if you have a great place to shoot from. Pick your location buy what lens you have too.

I give you this info because I have shot many airshows and I'm a pro Freelance photographer at several race tracks here in north america. and have learned my lessons when it comes to Airshow photographs. Feel free to ask any questions you might have.

What Camera does she have, and what lens?
Where are you all located?
You Could always rent a Lens from a local photographers rental store!

Cinch

Tomcatboy48237 · Post by **Tomcatboy48237** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:00 pm

Cinch wrote: 1.) Long lens (at least a 200mm Zoom (Usually about $1,000)for the great shots sometimes a 300mm (About $2,000 to $3,000) Wide angle zoom (18mm-70mm good for static shots)

Not so much, 75-300mm lenses go for $150 or less at almost everywhere.

2.)Fast FPS, yea I said FPS and I dont mean (First Person Shooter) Frame per second, At the best I would have atleast 4 to 5 frames per sec, most prosumer cams have about 2 to 3 with a shutter lag time of a few ms, A few ms can cause you to loose great shots, (I know of this first hand).

Shutter lag and focusing speed is far more important than FPS, but I'm guessing this girl already has her camera and equipment.

Cinch · Post by **Cinch** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:06 pm

for non pro equipment it cost that much, but the quality on some of the lens at that cost are rubbish! I have tried to get away with that before and never lilke the photos!

hmm, if you want to catch the cross over breaks or solo manuvers with both planes you need the FPS!!

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:00 pm

Cinch,

Do you consider PROMASTER to be rubbish? I just picked up a new Digital XTi, having EOS Promaster lenses from my previous EOS Rebel 2000. This is probably the best picture I had taken with film using my Promaster 75-300, which works great for over the top shots and closer stuff. I think i was actually zoomed in a bit on this shot of the diamond-

If you look closer, you can definitely tell it is a film shot because of the grain, but then look at how 1 and 4 are in perfect focus, but 2 and 3 are not, this is due to autofocus. As I've gotten better, I will now use manual focus for most shots, just no airplanes to photograph right now!

As far as the fps, I believe on "Full Rock and Roll" i can crank 3 shots a second off on this camera, but thats trying to remember what the book said.

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:23 pm

Little OT, but I just asked Cinch the other day about his opinion of some cameras. Needless to say, the guy knows what he's doing and is a great photographer; however, the budget I had in mind was far below most of his suggestions that night. If you want pro tips or want to know about pro hardware, Cinch is your man! For most with an amateur budget and leisure shooting in mind, I'm can totally see where Tomcatboy and Rhino are coming from. I'm reading a book right now about photography and the author is explaining this pretty much the same way Cinch did. In the long run (as a Pro), you'd never want to go with hardware that won't give you the best picture quality out there. With equipment 2nd to something, it doesn't matter how good of a photographer you are, the pictures won't be as good as if you had gone with the better "glass".

That said, for most mortals the camera Rhino just got (Canon Rebel XTi) and others like the Nikon D80 are superb, especially considering the price vs. quality. I'd imagine the same goes for lenses that fit those cameras. Relatively cheap, but with great quality. For a lot more money, you can get perfect quality... but the happy medium is sort of lost for the average amateur photographer!

My two cents...

WCD-01/WILDCAT, if you don't know the show, you'll have to learn it before teaching it to someone else. Then spend some time with her going over similar shots found online. An image is worth a thousand words. If you can show her the type of shot you're looking for, it will save her and yourself many headaches. Good luck!

Cinch · Post by **Cinch** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:15 pm

2 & 3 outer edge of engines are out of foucus due to the lens getting soft at longer focal lengths. This is why I dont shoot with a cheap lens. I know some people have a budget, I now know this!!! LOL LD ,don't say a word... But to me I need at least 75% sucessful photographs for it to be worth me shooting. Now, thats me just shooting for me and not for a race track nor a race car team. Now, with shooting stuff to get paid for I want a 85% to 90% rate. The reason why is I don't want to feel like I'm wasting my time for a 50% useable shot percentage. Here are some of my shots from varios shows. Notice and the long focal length that the subject is in total focus. Enjoy!

DaveG · Post by **DaveG** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:15 pm

While you do need at least a 200mm, you can get by on a lower budget lens. The biggest problems with non apo or ED lenses is purple fringing, and also the slower focusing as mentioned above. With that said, you can get great results with a cheaper lens. I shoot with a Nikon D50 and the Nikkor 70-300 G lens. I have been able to get around the purple fringing problem by shooting at F9 or F10 in bright light. While I would love to shoot with a 80-400 VR lens, or a 500mm APO, sometimes budgets just will not allow it.

Hope this helps,

Dave

WCD-01/WILDCAT · Post by **WCD-01/WILDCAT** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:07 pm

WCD-01/WILDCAT, if you don't know the show, you'll have to learn it before teaching it to someone else. Then spend some time with her going over similar shots found online. An image is worth a thousand words. If you can show her the type of shot you're looking for, it will save her and yourself many headaches. Good luck!

I know the show

just wondering if anything has been changed for the new season,and im going to show her some videos and others' shots to show her want i want as well, with her knowing the show too it will save me the trouble of telling her where to look and we both can get ready for a shot

WCD-01/WILDCAT · Post by **WCD-01/WILDCAT** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:46 pm

Ok i e-mailed the Thunderbirds public affairs officer and she told me the show is exact same as last year so thanks for the help guys, now i just have to get my friend to learn the show