Wow, it's been ages since I've posted here. Anyway, I'll cut to the chase.
I've been looking and studying a lot of videos (including your Smoke On video) of the #5 and #6 opposing passes (Knife Edge and Four-Point Rolls)
It's my understanding that both aircraft bank inward during the Knife-Edge Pass (i.e. Cockpit to cockpit), but they bank outward during the Four-Point (i.e. Belly to belly).
Is that right? And if so.....why? If they banked inwards the first time, why not the second?
I ask because I'm re-starting production on my Thunderbirds Airshow, and I want it all to be right.
Question about Opposing passes
Re: Question about Opposing passes
My thought is that it would be to deconflict any chance there would be of someone having a bad "roll" and moving laterally into each other's flight paths, since they both do left rolls, they're rolling into each other. Rolling "away" keeps any chance of that incursion to a minimum. (Although the Blues DO roll into each other, their lateral separation is a lot. The closeness of the "hit" is VERY optical.)Tomcat wrote:If they banked inwards the first time, why not the second?
As I watch the area in question in "Smoke On" as well as other real Thunderbirds videos I have, you will notice that the initial hit is on the initial 90 degrees of roll, whereas the Blues achieve their hit at the 180 degree or inverted part of the maneuver.
Actually, when we made the movie we still had it wrong. Due to Tales remaining on the team for 3 years after Elrod's accident in 2003, the Solo profiles got mixed up for a couple of years. At the same time, during the 2002-2003 seasons the direction of the Crossover Break changed from being flown into the crowd to away from the crowd due to FAA regulations, which meant all the maneuvers prior to the Crossover Break got swapped for the Left/Right Solo profiles in order to make the show work. In other words, it was very hard to catch for anyone watching videos during the 2000-2006 seasons in particular how this really worked, given Tales being both a Left and Right Solo and the FAA changes between seasons from videos seen in early this decade. We had seen video of canopy to canopy hits and belly to belly hits and for some reason it seemed like the Op4P was always belly to belly, while the OpKE usually canopy to canopy. We made a false assumption turns out...
Here's how it works (it's always easier than one imagines): Because the Tbird Solos are titled Left and Right, their hits changes every season since they retain their maneuvers. Last year when Pinto, a Left Solo was #5, all the Opposing hits were canopy to canopy. This year with Combo, a Right Solo as #5, all the Opposing hits are belly to belly. The simple explanation is that the Opposing Solo is always the one flying farthest away from the crowd and responsible for "aborting" the hit away from the crowd if necessary. The canopy/belly has absolutely no bearing on the safety of the maneuver. The lateral separation is the same regardless and they always roll to the left. The Lead Solo flies down the show line, the Opposing Solo flies outside the line. Next year when Tonka becomes the Lead Solo, all the Opposing maneuvers will once again be canopy to canopy because he flies the Left Solo profile. So, on all those pictures, it's always the Lead Solo who's closest to the camera, but some years that pilot is a Left Solo and other years a Right Solo and that's why you'll see canopy to canopy hits and belly to belly hits respectively.
As far as the hit in the Opposing 4 Point, it happens in the first 90 degrees of bank, with each hesitation evenly cadenced throughout the roll (unlike the Blues which will "hold inverted" until the hit in their Opposing 4 Point).
Here's how it works (it's always easier than one imagines): Because the Tbird Solos are titled Left and Right, their hits changes every season since they retain their maneuvers. Last year when Pinto, a Left Solo was #5, all the Opposing hits were canopy to canopy. This year with Combo, a Right Solo as #5, all the Opposing hits are belly to belly. The simple explanation is that the Opposing Solo is always the one flying farthest away from the crowd and responsible for "aborting" the hit away from the crowd if necessary. The canopy/belly has absolutely no bearing on the safety of the maneuver. The lateral separation is the same regardless and they always roll to the left. The Lead Solo flies down the show line, the Opposing Solo flies outside the line. Next year when Tonka becomes the Lead Solo, all the Opposing maneuvers will once again be canopy to canopy because he flies the Left Solo profile. So, on all those pictures, it's always the Lead Solo who's closest to the camera, but some years that pilot is a Left Solo and other years a Right Solo and that's why you'll see canopy to canopy hits and belly to belly hits respectively.
As far as the hit in the Opposing 4 Point, it happens in the first 90 degrees of bank, with each hesitation evenly cadenced throughout the roll (unlike the Blues which will "hold inverted" until the hit in their Opposing 4 Point).
