Flaps Up

SilentEagle · Post by **SilentEagle** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:24 am

I noticed it was harder to fly the F-15 in formation now without the flaps.

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:27 am

Flying with flaps up isn't really any harder after you get used to the new power settings, muscle memory, and pulls. The jet actually behaves a lot nicer in the majority of the maneuvers, which is part of why we decided to discontinue using flaps altogether... That and the Diamond Loop on Takeoff of course!

kerdougan · Post by **kerdougan** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:45 am

Could I add "at last"?

Good decision! I don't understand how you flew so well with those flaps down. That was the most painful way to fly.

Frazer · Post by **Frazer** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:20 am

Lawndart wrote:Flying without flaps down isn't really any harder after you get used to the new power settings, muscle memory, and pulls. The jet actually behaves a lot nicer in the majority of the maneuvers, which is part of why we decided to discontinue using flaps... That and the Diamond Loop on Takeoff of course!

Good decision if you ask me

Flying without flaps will also get you rid of the somewhat strange nose down pitch at flybys.

Sinister · Post by **Sinister** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:40 am

Doesn't flying with the flaps up create more of an exaggerated response... a lot of bouncing around and snappy responses?

Post by **Gunner** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:16 am

From my perspective on left wing, the jet behaves better, and rolls are a piece of cake. Only thing that seems harder is the loops - lot more pull. Throttle control is also a bit more challenging 'cause the jet is so slick, but not a big deal.

Post by **Lawndart** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:52 am

Gunner is spot on I think. No more PIO, in fact, since it is heavier we have more "range" on the back pressure to keep things steady. You may need to hit the gym more often to build up the stamina though. The jet behaves so much nicer overall, but since it is clean, polished and light, as Gunner said, it's also very slick!

It definitely allows me to fly the show faster and more precise, and matching real world params are no problem as long as you fly the jet (and NOT the throttle). The benefit of more lift (airspeed) over the tops helps a great deal and trading kinetic energy for potential energy (i.e. Airspeed for Altitude, and back again) works beautifully without much throttle input and no speed brakes. I'm glad we made the switch!

kerdougan · Post by **kerdougan** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:32 am

Can't wait to see the result!

Bo#4 · Post by **Bo#4** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:18 am

I really like flying with the flaps up, seems to be easier for me and the parade passes are a lot smoother with less PIO. If I get sucked (which I never do LOL) it's a small power up and I'm back where I need to be. Also since we are all solos and diamond pilots on the VPJT, cause our show is pretty demanding it makes it so I can get in on the rejoins a lot easier and faster also.

Blaze · Post by **Blaze** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:04 pm

Yes the VPJT has also finally made the switch, and I'm glad we did!

Frazer · Post by **Frazer** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:15 pm

Just out of curiosity, now that you guys fly with flaps up and the jet doesn't have the natural drag from the flaps, are airbrakes used comming down from loops and barrels? I'm not sure but I think the real TB do not use airbrakes most of the time?

Post by **Lawndart** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:57 pm

Negative Frazer, we don't use speed brakes in loops or rolls (neither do the Thunderbirds), and as you're well aware of our rolls are flat and fast too!

There's more induced drag from a heavier pull since we changed configuration and the power settings are lower than before. Our numbers work out perfectly to coincide with real life on top parameters and entry/exit numbers are coincident with those used in real life as well.

Post by **Teej** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:07 pm

Frazer wrote:Just out of curiosity, now that you guys fly with flaps up and the jet doesn't have the natural drag from the flaps, are airbrakes used comming down from loops and barrels?

Pfft. What do you think we are, VBAs?

(Consider that payback for the comment about my Packers sweatshirt, guys. Hehehe).

Beaker · Post by **Beaker** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:35 pm

Haha that's barely related.

Blues use boards, we use boards.

Post by **Teej** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:38 pm

Beaker wrote:Haha that's barely related. Blues use boards, we use boards.

I know, bro. It's all good.