This goes out to all the Thunderbird Pilots

Polska111 · Post by **Polska111** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:54 pm

Eyy guys, i have posted here a few times before but i never told you how cool that display really was. me and my friendsa re trying to do some general Aerobatics and Formation flying but we cant get the turns right. Do you think you could give us a few tips on how to stay in a good formation on a turn and level flight. well at least a hint on how you did it, lol

Peace

STRIKER · Post by **STRIKER** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:18 pm

Polska111,

Thanks for you kind words and I would like to refer you to this thread and many others in the practice range section of our forums

http://www.virtualthunderbirds.com/foru ... .php?t=585

5's clear

Post by **Lawndart** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:20 pm

Lots of useful hints can be found in the practice range forum (Diamond Roll threads). Basically, there is no such thing as not-moving your controls for a wingman. You're always correcting to maintain sight picture. The closer you are, the smaller, but more decisive and accurate the corrections need to be. Keep feathering the throttle in small motions to maintain fore/aft and account for momentum vs. power output. Pitch to fly the missile rail at the exact same position on Boss's canopy (left or right wing sight pics). Roll to maintain planform with Lead or same angle of bank and then bleed in rudder (just enough, not a lot) to maintain lateral spacing (distance from lead). It's a well choreographed and orchestrated ballet of control inputs! Mainly just relax and think like a good fighter pilot (contrary to popular belief of that definition).

A good fighter pilot does not have lightning reflexes or would react to things around him impulsively. A good fighter pilot analyses and thinks 5-6 steps ahead of the airplane, so by the time a corrective action is taken it's no surprise, but well rehearsed mentally and performed with a collective calm, even in the most dire situations.

Of course Lead has to fly very smooth too. Roll rates, climbs and power changes must all be communicated and done with absolute precision to the hundredth of a G and 1% of power. Lead has to be super smooth and someone capable of thinking 10-steps ahead of the airplane to achieve maneuver parameters. To just fly around though, just think smooth, slow and gentle. Don't fly constant airspeed, fly constant power setting. Otherwise life isn't as easy on the wing...

LD

SilverOne · Post by **SilverOne** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:55 pm

Thankx for all the tips LD ! ,

Polska111 · Post by **Polska111** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:39 am

Me and my friends use the speed hold (Key J) to hold our speed. we form up close to each other and then hold speed to remain close to each other withough having to touch the controlls. Is this good? because we found it helps alot, also using altitude hold for level flight helps alot. this is (Key H).
Also, whren turning, i would be behind my friend and he will turn and we count it in and we both turn at the same bank angle and so on, yet for sum reason the person behind always turns faster, note i am not touching my controlls at all, i am benking and leaving them. is this because i need to get below so i can see them above me then turn and increas speed to keep up with the turn circle to stay close? or is it because we need to time our turns better?

Peace

Post by **Lawndart** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:34 am

Altitude hold is ok. Speed hold is NOT OK! Simply put, just stop using it. Neither Lead or a wingman should ever engage speed hold. Some of it is Lock-On and the way it handles speed hold, the other is from a wingman standpoint, it is just not possible to do any type of maneuvering (follow the leader) with speed hold. You cannot fly formation with speed hold, period! That's step one of fixing your issue! I don't have time right now to explain all the details of why, but trust me on that one!!!

LD

Polska111 · Post by **Polska111** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:57 pm

ok, i will take your word for it then. I think i know why tho, because i have noticed that when i am behind sum1, and they are a say 500, and i am at 500, i will be slowly be creeping up on them, but it helps me cos i dont have a X45 or X52 i just got a nasty inbuilt throttle. thanks for the advice.

Post by **Lawndart** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:51 am

If you want to make it easier on yourself while learning to fly form, start out by flying at slower speeds. Have Lead fly in the 200-350 knot range. Whenever you get into 400+ knots the controls become very touchy and for someone starting out, you're putting yourself in harms way in making the the learning curve steeper for no good reason. Only reason we fly that fast is for the timing and parameters to perform maneuvers in making it a complete show. We could certainly fly slower in some maneuvers, but the continuation of the timing and subsequent maneuver would suffer...

My tip: Fly slow, learn to get tight and comfortable first. Then start maneuvering, then add elements such as faster speed and of course rejoins.

LD