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Solos Crossover Break & Hack Timing

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:44 am
by FSXTB#5"Dirty"
Hey guys, I have a question that I guess is better suited for Panther or Teej to answer, but of course anyone that knows PLEASE chime in.

So I'm learning the solo routine and just a couple of quick questions.

1. During the Crossover Break, whom is on the left and whom on the right? And after passing showcenter, I know 5 calls "Standby 6, 6 out ready now"...and will adjust power depending on which side they are on. Also, I have seen them when upon rolling out after the level 180 turn and smoke off, they pitch up maybe 10degs or so and then push for level again before going parallel for the Oppo Split-s. Is this correct?

2. "Hack" calls for solo oppo mauenvers. I understand that the solo's hack location is 4.0nm on a 30deg offset behind the crowd, show left and right. So let's say its the Oppo KE pass:

I will call out "Solos, check grd". And then "Solos, point at your hack". 6 calls "Got it 5!"

At this point both a/c turn to head to their hack points aiming to be at a grdspd of 450, hdg towards the run-in line from behind the crowd, 90deg offset. What I'd like to know is how do the solos time hiting the hack point...especially if they are setting up from a manuever that may have not had them flying equal parallel downwind into the basket area or if say Boss bobbles and is late coming in, requiring the solos to have to stage extra time out in the basket? With the Blues, 5 asks if 6 can take a mark...meaning 6 is in a location where he can hit the 3mn marker within 15 secs. So they take their mark and that sets both a/c hitting the starting mark on par. But Im failing to understand how TB solos hit the hack mark at the same time.

Just before the hack point, 5 calls "Stand by hack...let's hack now", with each solo repeating to themselves the "let's hack now" the cadence that #5 said it....then start timing on the stopwatch. So where exactly in these comms are the solos actually flying over the hack point?

So 10 secs later, 5 calls "90 to the line", which means both solos make their 90deg turn to head in runway hdg.

At the 12k mark, the manuever is announced and repeated by 6...along with "tight" or "stretched" if need. The rest of the calls I know and understand...announcing "solos check cal" if going into individual maneuvers after the clearing.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:35 pm
by Beaker
I think you might be jumping the gun with this many questions!

1) Study more videos!

2) A "hack" refers to the synchronization of stopwatches, nothing more. They anticipate crossing the "hack point" (as you call it) at 10 seconds into their timing. They fly the entire opposing maneuver profile using the stopwatches. (PS... what you're describing is not what the Blues do. ;))

3) A "tight" or "stretched" call refers to timing the show against the diamond. If the solos are early or late, they'll make that call. Check "CAL" most likely refers to a confirmation of calibrated airspeed.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:36 am
by Lawndart
Thanks for the explanation Beaker. The hack works a little differently than mentioned, at least for the Thunderbirds. I'd be happy to give some pointers on the subject in TS another time, but we're all busy living our lives (off season) at the moment. Feel free to ask questions still, but bite sized ones please. Those are easier to tackle than serving up an entire textbook on a silver platter... :P

Where'd you guys hear that the location for the hack waypoint was 4nm/30deg, just curious?

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:52 am
by FSXTB#5"Dirty"
When doing research about 2 weeks ago on google trying to find out info on the hack process, the first thing that came up with this link on your forums:

viewtopic.php?t=454&sid=2231f5998574897 ... 24cbd53c81

When reading LD's first post, I saw where he mentioned clicking another link to read about a Lead solos' response to hacking, and that's what I clicked and read. Awesome stuff...I think it was a class act that Mr. Pederson took time out to do what he did....and I know he received an abundant amount of thanks from all whom posted in that topic.

As far as answer's to my questions, that's not a's no rush. I'm still searching for the answers as well....doing never-ending research which is alot of work, but worth it! :wink:

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:49 pm
by Teej
The left solo goes on the left, right solo on right. Doesn't matter what your # is. :D

Last year, right solo was #5 and left was #6...for both the real team and us. This year, the the real TB left solo is the 2nd year pilot, so now he's #5 and the incoming right solo will be #6. Barring unforseen circumstances, they alternate like this each year.

We don't worry much about ground vs. cal.

Stretched/Tight is, as has been mentioned, a matter of choreography. The Thunderbird routine focuses on very tight timing between the Diamond and Solos.

Hack calls are benchmarks. Can't tell you exactly where we are when we make the calls because it could be different every time. 5 keys off the Diamond's calls and timing for that and the contract is wherever we are, we will be at 2nm from show center at 450 knots, 30 seconds after the hack call. In a perfect world, we'd be crossing our reference point (4nm, 30*) at the end of the hack call...but that's a luxury we don't get to rely on.

It's all about practice, communication and knowing your partners. Can't really upload the knowledge in a forum post.

I truly wish you luck in your endeavors at trying to do this in FSX.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:13 pm
by FSXTB#5"Dirty"
Thanks for the clarification. My oppo (Tex) and I are having a blast trying to get this down, and I'm sure it'll work out great once we work some lag time out of the demo between the diamond and solos.

Appreciate it once again. Having got those answers finally will allow us to start flying the demo and for the rest of the year allow us to continually fine tune it as we learn all the little "details" along the way. Cheers.

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:57 am
by Beaker
Teej wrote:I truly wish you luck in your endeavors at trying to do this in FSX.
What he means is... you're gonna need it! :P Kidding.