Quick questions about formation flying settings

[Vindicator]

Hello everyone, I just have a few quick questions for you guys about the setting you use for formation flying.

First let me just go over what I got so far.

Padlock is on leader
trim is set for -33
gear is up
speed is around 300-450?

Now about the flaps, I was wondering what setting if anything you guys are using for the flaps. Is all your doing is basicly hitting the *F* key to put the flaps down? Or is there a more complicated setting your using. Because I'm guessing when you just press the F key it sets flaps to full 100% ? But I hear talk of the Flaps supposed to be at 90%? How would you set that up? Please explain to me how this works

Also a question on throttle control in formation.

My formation flying is really coming together now, and my throttle control is ALOT better. But I still get alittle jerk or two out of the airplane every now and then. It just tends to jump alittle to much forward then id like to see. Now I'm sure I could improve on this. But I just wanted to make double sure everything is working the way it should.

First thing I noticed was that my N1 indicator does not go all the way to 110% thrust with full afterburn. Is this normal? or do I need to recalibrate. From what I can read the indicator only reaches about 98 or 100% Now 100% would make perfect sense. But I thought I remebered it reaching 110 when I first started playing. Yet when I go into options and check the throttle, the responses are fine. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing. But I want to be sure

Also, on the Vertical rolls. What speed is that preformed at. What speed do you start the climb at? and what are the speed and throttle settings at when your in the climb? I believe you guys said that to get the spin on the airplane you add some forward presure on the stick? hehe I'v tryed this a few times and got it a few. But if the speed is not right, the plane will not seem to spin the way I like.

Thanks again guys for taking the time to read and answer these questions. It's very nice seeing a group of people so professional and comitted to something. BTW Gunner, awesome job on the ejection seat. Been trying to keep up with some of your crazy work. Hopfully I can get some of my pet projects photographed and posted for you guys to take a look at. Also, what ever happened with that 3DVisor thing? I never really got the end to that.

Thanks agian ! Vindy

[Lawndart]

First let me just go over what I got so far.

Padlock is on leader
trim is set for -33
gear is up
speed is around 300-450?

Yes, yes (had to think about that one for a while), yes and yes (depending on maneuver). Diamond aside from vertical stuff, 300-350 knots. Solos, almost always 450 with exceptions.

Now about the flaps, I was wondering what setting if anything you guys are using for the flaps. Is all your doing is basicly hitting the *F* key to put the flaps down? Or is there a more complicated setting your using. Because I'm guessing when you just press the F key it sets flaps to full 100% ? But I hear talk of the Flaps supposed to be at 90%? How would you set that up? Please explain to me how this works

With the latest patch (1.12a), the Eagle received only one flap setting in LOFC. Up or Down! Since, we use the latest patch for LOFC, we decided to go with Flaps Down for due to the flight model, maneuver profiles and throttle range. We set the flaps prior to taxi and retract them in unison during the post-landing recovery. In between they're set Down the entire time. IRL, the Viper uses auto flaps (different story)...

Also a question on throttle control in formation.

My formation flying is really coming together now, and my throttle control is ALOT better. But I still get alittle jerk or two out of the airplane every now and then. It just tends to jump alittle to much forward then id like to see. Now I'm sure I could improve on this. But I just wanted to make double sure everything is working the way it should.

You're constantly making adjustments to remain in position (formation) regardless of whether the leader is making inputs (and definitely when the leader does make inputs). The throttle, especially, will constantly float back and forth a little, sometimes more. When you can minimize the magnitude of the inputs with your throttle hand, means the better in control you are of the airplane, but it is not uncommon that for the duration of the time you're in wing, your throttle hand is never at rest.

First thing I noticed was that my N1 indicator does not go all the way to 110% thrust with full afterburn. Is this normal? or do I need to recalibrate. From what I can read the indicator only reaches about 98 or 100% Now 100% would make perfect sense. But I thought I remebered it reaching 110 when I first started playing. Yet when I go into options and check the throttle, the responses are fine. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing. But I want to be sure

Whether it's precicely 110% or 103% with AB for the Eagle in LOFC I cannot remember, but Full MIL is represented by 100% N1. If you run the joystick analyzer (Foxy) and get proper responses, you're stick is likely fine. Just as in a real airplane, Idle power varies (low 70's for the Eagle) and it is possible, even normal to display more than 100% of turbine rotation speed.

Also, on the Vertical rolls. What speed is that preformed at. What speed do you start the climb at? and what are the speed and throttle settings at when your in the climb? I believe you guys said that to get the spin on the airplane you add some forward presure on the stick? hehe I'v tryed this a few times and got it a few. But if the speed is not right, the plane will not seem to spin the way I like.

The inbound speed is 600 knots CAL or mach .94 in Full MIL (or low burner). IRL, with anything more than low burner the smoke will vaporize. Once unloaded vertical, start rolling left with max ailerons and secondly add about 3/4 back pressure to spin the heck out of the tail and get those pigtails (corkscrew). Keep tabs on your airspeed and plan to "clear" at 200 knots with the back 45 degrees show-left (towards the crowd). The sun is a good reference for direction. Note its position relative the HUD before the rolls and you'll know when to roll-out. IRL, the Solo uses forward stick pressure during the rolls, due to roll coupling; however, LOFC doesn't model this anywhere near accurately and the results are a series of flat aileron rolls, hence why we use back pressure instead.

Thanks for stopping by!

[Vindicator]

OH OK!!! hahahah that makes more sense. Because I was so confused when I read the artical from solo2002 I think it was. In there he explaned how the real Thunderbirds use forward stick to get the corkscrew effect. I had tryed this a number of times, and just never got the effect you guys did in the movie.

Thanks Lawndart!

[Gunner]

BTW Gunner, awesome job on the ejection seat. Been trying to keep up with some of your crazy work. Hopfully I can get some of my pet projects photographed and posted for you guys to take a look at. Also, what ever happened with that 3DVisor thing? I never really got the end to that.

Thanks Vindy, I'm having fun building my pit, although sometimes I wonder if it's going to get out of control . As for the 3D visor, the resolution just didn't cut it, and the head tracking wasn't accurate enough.

[Tailhook]

Thanks Vindy, I'm having fun building my pit, although sometimes I wonder if it's going to get out of control . As for the 3D visor, the resolution just didn't cut it, and the head tracking wasn't accurate enough.

hey gunner about that. If you really make some good money (not being an almost millionaire) but have a good flow of money and can afford it. You could prolly contact AMARC and see what they would do for you if you would request a whole front body/cockpit from a real F-16C.

Last time I checked, they ripped off the whole front of an F-4 for a dude that paid like $1-300,000

[Gunner]

hey gunner about that. If you really make some good money (not being an almost millionaire) but have a good flow of money and can afford it. You could prolly contact AMARC and see what they would do for you if you would request a whole front body/cockpit from a real F-16C.
Last time I checked, they ripped off the whole front of an F-4 for a dude that paid like $1-300,000

Viper -
I'm sure I must come across as an incredibly classy, brilliant, rich, high society kinda guy... , but I'm just an average Joe with a passion I can't begin to satisfy! 'Wish I had that kind of cash, but I'm religated to making it myself. Besides, starting with a seat as amazing as Stang's, who needs the real thing?

[Vindicator]

LoL, I know what you mean Gunner. I don't have alot of money, but I do seem to spend it all in the same places hahah, Computers and Flight Sims. I don't what to think about how much money I have spent the past few years. Anyway, Hopfully I can get some pic's up soon of my setup. ( I need to do it was fast as posible, so I at least have 1 or 2 weeks before Gunner puts me to shame with his fully functional F16 At this point after looking at yoru other stuff, I will not be surprized if we see a full F-16 tub with working electronics and functional HUD.

BTW before I forget, when I get a chance I wanted to ask you about your computer and watercooling setup. I work a computer company called Alienware, and ever since we have been getting in these new 8800 NVIDIA cards I'v been drooling. BUT they run ALITTLE hot. Anyway I'm alittle short on time right now. But I need to ask about your water pump and what heatsinks your using. If yoru even cooling your video card ( can't remeber ) I had been using a watercooled thermaltake I think its called........ but anyway.. ill get back to you on that

Ok now for just a few more questions for you guys.

For the Max Performance Turn. What is the inbound speed on that. I was watching the movie ( and I may be wrong ) but it looked like during the turn solo was doing about >400 juding from the HUD. So I'm guessing the inbound is around 450? Hitting the afterburning right after executing the turn.

Also I was wondering about formation practice and what you guys think is the best way to go about it. I have logged MANY hours of practice. But I only get a chance to really practice loops and rolls with a few friends that don't seem to get online much. So when they are not on I'm very limited. So I was really wondering what you guys do to practice when no one is around? I read alittle bit about this phantom server. From what I understand you record a track you fly, then play it back and fly another plane in it? I had thought about trying this. But I dont have 2 computers at the moment to run a server off of. So if someone could just shoot me a suggestion or advice I'm here to learn !

[Lawndart]

Max Turn - Start inbound at 420 knots and light the can as you roll into the turn. The purpose of the turn is not to pull for all your worth, but rather to sustain a maximum perfromance turn, where the turn circle (radius) is small and the turn rate high (degrees/second). As you enter and plug the burner, you want to bleed off a little speed with the initial pull. You'll have to pull quickly and hard not to accelerate too much. The jet will be close to corner speed (desired speed) at approx 380 knots. At this speed you'll be able to keep the circle small and the rate high, while being able to manipulate the speed simply by easing a little back pressure or pulling a hair more. The jet will also have all 9G's of acceleration available at this speed, so there are no limiting factors really.

If you let the jet get too slow (~350-), your turn rate will suffer and the radius become too small. You'll have to ease off back pressure and accelerate to keep the circle symmetrical. If you let the jet accelerate too much on the other hand (~440+), your radius will increase dramatically and the turn rate suffer again. Also, getting too speedy, means there's no way of pulling harder to slow down anymore, and you'll have to throttle back (undesired thing to do, as the maneuver uses full blown burner from initiation of the turn until after the Half Cuban .

The trick to maintaining a perfectly level turn is to place the Velocity Vector about 1 degree above the level line as you're in the turn, and pulling G's. You'll notice that the "VV" is flashing, indicating its actual location is below the HUD. If you draw out an imaginary line to where it really is, it will be approx on the level line, while you're maintaining a 80+ degree bank and placing the visible (and flashing) "VV" 1 degree high on the HUD. Do not rely on your altimeter. Use small cues such as the "VV" and outside references. This maneuver is certainly tougher than it looks and a good example of how Solo maneuvers pay close attention to small details. 1 degree off and you'll be 100ft higher at the completion of the circle... Now, just imagine doing that while your body weighs around 1,700 lbs as in real life.

Vindy, what do you do for Alienware?

[STRIKER]

I enter a level line at 400 knts, hit the burner, count one potato, then quickly bank around 75-80 degrees and begin the pull to 9g's. Pull hard at first to get a good turn rate and like LD said put the FPV about 1 to 2 degrees above the horizon although it will be flashing due to the fact you are turning too fast for it to catch up. Just like LD said, it's a tight speed corridor to maintain with the pull but my min speed is 375-ish to a max of 440. You bust those numbers and you will depart the manuever or just fall out of it regardless and it won't feel or even look right.

Remember, this manuever burns more gas and calories than any other the team performs so getting it right is always a good feeling.

[Vindicator]

I keep things from falling apart! heh j/k. I'm actully a sustaining engineer. Lots of product testing and basically just keeping things running smoothly. I also get to build alot of our in house computers which is pretty fun.

Only problem is everyone around here seems to play MMO's ! I'm surrounded! But really, I'm really looking forward to getting online with you guys at some point hopfully.

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far, always greatly appreciated.

Vindy

[Vindicator]

(Vertical Rolls) About how many G's would you say your trying to pull once your start your rolls with the backpressure on the stick. ATM I'm finding that the effect really is not there unless you pull around 7 G's it seems. Also, about what altitude do you pull out of the rolls? Or do you just wait till speed is around 200? Funny with this maneuver, in order to check it, I'v had to go back out and look at the track file and try to find the right camera angle to really show off the smoke trail as much as posible.

Its coming along though Max turn is working out great thanks to you guys advice.

Thanks again

Vindy

[Burner]

I'll let Striker answer in detail, but the easiest way to check if you're making a nice spiral is to go to an F4 view looking directly behind the plane. You'll know you're pulling enough when you're creating wingtip vortices.

[Lawndart]

In the real world, the Solo sets 0.8G's, but as you know that means an inward spiral. In LOMAC, since this isn't possible, we use aft stick and I couldn't even tell you the G, cause it's quite irrelevant due to the fact that your geometry (G acceleration) in relation to where gravity wants to pull you is not pointing towards the same place anymore. The G's ease off once you point the nose skyward in any looping maneuver...

Use muscle memory instead and to get those pigtails whilst whipping the tail around VTB (LOMAC) -style, use about 3/4 deflection of back pressure once you've unloaded and begin rolling. (Burner's suggestion to look for contrails is a good indicator as you want to see about 3 turns of contrails before you've bled enough speed off). Again, this is a LOMAC *only* technique, but it works... Clear the maneuver no later than 200 knots. If your parameters were good from the start and you used Full MIL-Low AB, you should be approx at 10-13K. Remember IRL, the aerobatic box (TFR, or Temporary Flight Restriction area) extends up to 15K.