Thunder over Vegas

Aviation & Simulation Topics
RFDGuy
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:32 am

Post by RFDGuy » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:48 pm

Sounds like Gordon Bowman Jones for the announcer.....
User avatar
Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 9290
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mooresville, NC

Post by Lawndart » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:00 pm

Racer wrote:I see the comment about not being authentic.
Can someone tell me what makes Lock-On more authentic than this new sim?
I would assume you could fly this new sim the same way as Lock-On as far as formation flying or does it only allow the plane to roll one way. (The wrong way).
Just trying to get more information here.
No one is suggesting Lock-On is more realistic in a sense, but what we do accomplish with its limitations is far more accurate than this. You can certainly use this game to fly within its capabilities to an accurate level of representation. I can't tell you whether the fidelity is high enough or not to be considered a flight sim or more closely an arcade game, but that's not really the point here. Either way is fine! What everyone gets wound up about (incl. the real team) is all the false statements such as this title including an "authentic training program approved and test flown by Thunderbird pilots" etc. (I haven't had time to read through the latest website update whether statements such as those are still on there or not, but one press release flat out lied about both the fidelity of the sim and whom had "approved" it). When a developer claims they will take you through a Thunderbird training program with authentic lessons, overseen by the actual pilots and yet even an average air show spectator can spot obvious blunders, mistakes and grossly inaccurate formations and quite honestly, guesswork by the producer... Well... Nuff said!

I don't mind the game itself being on the market, but I wish the producer/developer would advertise it for what it is, not something it's not even close to modeling, and I'm not talking about sim vs. arcade game. They don't model the training, accuracy and attention to detail at all, but saying they do AND claiming it's "approved" and tested is false advertising and a big fat lie at its best!

The unbelievable attention to detail is unbelievably and blatantly missing in this title, which is why we turned down the request to beta test, since given what we saw, we didn't want to be affiliated with anything that bad. It had nothing to do with the sim platform itself...


EDIT: I quoted you Racer while you were editing your post. As far as the spacing, that's not the most obvious mistake, but I can tell you that even the positioning in a spread like that is not correct either. Again, it's guesswork by the developer and they failing miserably in what they claim their title does.
User avatar
BonJobie
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:23 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Post by BonJobie » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:43 pm

The issue here really isn't the quality of the game. The real is issue is a US military policy called "implied endorsement". The USAF Thunderbirds, US Navy Blue Angels, or whomever cannot in any way overtly or "covertly" endorse a product or appear (implied) to endorse a product. The maker of this product is openly implying that the Thunderbirds endorse his product, which they cannot even if they wanted to. As a matter of point, you will never see anything on our websites, videos or any other VTB product that states "endorsed" or "approved" by the USAF Thunderbirds. I agree with everything that LD has stated, and I will also add that we do not approve or endorse ourselves, nor will we endorse (because WE can) any product or representation that doesn't bring credit upon the Thunderbirds and the United States Air Force.

Bon
Image
Atlas
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:35 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by Atlas » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:18 pm

Well to even back up a little about what Gunner said, Racer check out in the movie 2:40 into it when they do the Trail to Diamond Cloverloop. What are the wingmen and slot doing above lead??? And watch how they all have to drop down and get into the diamond instead of properly being underneath lead and transisioning the way they are suppose to. :lol: :wink:
Rotorblade
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:57 pm

Post by Rotorblade » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:29 pm

Regardless of the "implied endorsement" or not that the website has it seems like the TOV website it self is a ruse (deceptive maneuver) because of its seemingly brokenness with a few links and the fact that its makers website http://www.armchairaviator.net/ seems to be nonexistent.

http://www.armchairaviator.net/TOV/

Is the game even out yet?
User avatar
Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 9290
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mooresville, NC

Post by Lawndart » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:30 pm

It is most certainly not released yet and this is the first time I've heard of the name (or domain) armchairaviator.net. That is not the same URL this company was using before.

Bon summed up exactly why we do what we do and why we disagree with what these people are doing. It's not the sim or theme of the sim we disapprove of, but the way they go about it and at that, falsely make the general public believe their product is backed by the USAF and/or has realistic content or training as well (regardless the sim's flight modeling being simplified or realistic).

Btw, Bon, you are one of the most calm, cool and collected people I know, but this is one of very few times where I've seen you get worked up and very outspoken against something right off the bat (not solely based on your post in this thread of course)! :wink:



EDIT: Just had a chance to glance at the "new" site (armchairaviator.net). These two quotes stand out immediately.
Thunder Over Vegas site wrote:"THUNDER OVER VEGAS will awe flight simulator fans and real pilots alike."
Now you can experience the thrill of a Thunderbird pilot and find out what it takes to fly with the best.

Filled with action-packed flying,THUNDER OVER VEGAS combines high fidelity flight models with the most realistic Las Vegas in the history of flight simulation to recreate the exciting experience of being a Thunderbird pilot, right down to the smallest detail.
Smallest detail? With the amount of things they overlooked in the preview video... OMG! Secondly, I'm certainly in "awe" of how poorly these guys did their research if anything. WOW! ...and OMG again! :shock: :roll: :roll: Makes me wanna cry... :cry: or barf! :oops:

Lastly, the photos at the bottom depicting the Thunderbird pilots testing their game should have gotten them in trouble already. Last years PA staff became aware that they had posted these pics elsewhere and took action. I don't know what has happened in between then and now from the developers end and with a new PA staff on the Tbirds, but that is an "implied endorsement" if I ever saw one and will most certainly not stand. Basically someone knows someone (much like we do) and is taking advantage of it to sell a piss-poor representation of the Thunderbirds WITH "implied endorsements" all over the place.

Ever think about why we, the Virtual Thunderbirds LLC, don't have any pictures posted of us with the real team? (Other than the occasional autograph line pic accessible to anyone). Not because we don't have any... but rather for the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph! We respect their policy and they respect us for what we do...


P.S. Btw, Sabertooth... what you mentioned in your last post is only the tip of the iceberg!
Last edited by Lawndart on Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
BonJobie
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:23 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Post by BonJobie » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:16 pm

You are right, and you know this has been a burr under my saddle. I don't begrudge anyone from making a buck, as long as is it is done above board and with integrity.

Bon

PS: Regarding a comment about LOMAC above, we all know that if there was ANY simulation software out there that improved our Thunderbird performance (or VBA, VSB), we would be the first to sing its praises.
Image
Atlas
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:35 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Post by Atlas » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:20 am

Ya LD, as you mentioned that was just the tip of the iceburg. I met all of the pilots down here quickly like you said, getting autographs and it is a shame that these people would take advantage of them by saying they "endorse the product" and "it being true to the real thing" just makes me sick. :evil:
Airshow fan
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:02 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA

Post by Airshow fan » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:17 am

Agree with ya LD 100%. No where near detail. Looks fun to try out though.
User avatar
Ells
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:24 am
Location: London, UK

Post by Ells » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:57 am

Some great points there guys and I'm sure we all agree.

Airshow Fan I think it'd be more fun to fly with the VTB's personally lol, at least they get it right!!
Image
Airshow fan
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:02 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA

Post by Airshow fan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:47 am

Thats exactly true. Time to crank out Lomac again.
Post Reply