Smoke On the Movie!

Aviation & Simulation Topics
Talon
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Smoke On the Movie!

Post by Talon » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:13 am

This is an incredibly well made movie that represents all of the hard work and time dedicated to this craft. Well done VTB's, as this is just an awe inspiring movie. Fantastic flying, timing, graphics and sound effects... loved every minute of it!
Congratulations on a fantastic movie and truly amazing method of ending your 2006 season! Looking forward to see "the next level".

Respect to each and every one of you on a Mission Accomplished!


Thankfully it only took 27 min to download once the server allowed me to get in. Believe it or not, even though the film is incredible and well worth whatever time it takes to download for anyone, I would have loved to have had it with your own voice comms since you guys honestly did such an incredible job during VFAT'06. Whats next Kris, film career?! Great job and Kudos!
(When you can, if you could explain the best method to burn this beautiful movie to DVD for us, as I am sure others will ask as well.)
Thank-you in advance.
Last edited by Talon on Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:45 am

With HDTV being such a hot commodity nowadays, maybe it's time to start one of these discussions. DVD quality for all it's worth is low quality when we're talking HD! All the new HD DVD discs coming out now require you to have a HD DVD player as well and for good reason. The only way we can get more than 480p (standard DVD) out of this or any other video project is by having a burning software that can burn HD DVDs and then a player that can run the disc. There are also various HD quality settings and at the present the highest is 1,920 x 1,080p (progressive scan) HD. It has a bitrate and data flow extremely high and in true 16:9 aspect ratio. You'll only find this in select programming presently. Even most HD DVDs hitting the shelves are 1,440 x 1,080p and uses a 1.333 stretching of the horizontal pixels to give you "widescreen".

Our movie, Smoke On, is in 1,280 x 720p HD (a.k.a. 720p) with the bitrate lowered to allow most home computer users to, number one; download the movie (file size) and number two; be able to playback the movie without too many hiccups (stutters from not having enough horsepower in ones computer). It too is in true 16:9 aspect ratio, commonly known as "widescreen" and not stretched.

There are many intermediate settings and one popular one is 1,440 x 1,080p or 1,080i (interlaced) used in many HD DVDs hitting the stores. It will stretch the image and insert pixels to widen the image to become widescreen; however, it's native resolution is not true widescreen since it extends the horizontal pixels by a ratio of 1.3333.

Needless to say, all these HD settings (and additional ones... Believe me, there are many more) look far crisper and has many more pixels than a standard DVD at 480p. Let's not complicate things further now with all the various HDTV resolutions out there, many of which don't match the 720p, 1,080p standards natively either so additional stretching occurs...

So, back to where we started: A standard DVD is renowned for good quality, but when it comes to HD programming or rendering in HD you will lose a substantial amount of quality burning any video that is natively HD on to a DVD disc. Just as you would notice when you watch HDTV programming and flip the channel to regular programming, the picture appears all blurry to you for a while until you adjust and realize this is what "normal" TV programming looks like. The end result of burning a DVD will be a pixel resolution of 720 x 480p and just by pure numbers you can tell, you've lost a lot of resolution already. Secondly, burning a clip that already has a bitrate that's lowered (for internet downloads) to a DVD will only add more "artifacts" (size to the disc without true content) and any real data behind it. Translation: Your computer will interpolate the additional bits, but not add any additional data quality to the project as would be the case if you rendered in higher bitrate from the original project files.

Best option to make a DVD would be to render a higher bitrate version of the project and plan its native pixel resolution to be 720 x 480p (full screen or letterbox) and that way get the most you can get out of a standard DVD, but having the bitrate of the render match the bitrate on the DVD disc for clearer picture quality and more data in each frame. This is something you'd need the project files for in order to do and I'm not about to upload those (@ 250GB+)! We'd have to to this for you!

You guys can feel free to experiment and try burning your own copies, but you will degrade the quality and/or end up with a higher bitrate (without the actual project data behind it). Having said all that, it still looks pretty good on a standard DVD (480p) and if you're used to bootlegged DVDs, then you won't be disappointed.


In the coming weeks we plan on attempting two additional options for the movie. Number one; a full uninterrupted render of the project. This one is iffy, since it demands almost a Cray computer to render without memory leaks. Number two; rendering a standard DVD version (480p) in native resolution and bitrate for DVDs and for anyone who wants it, the ability to buy this "true DVD" format for a small fee & shipping, either as a download to burn yourself at home or we'll send you a DVD. More details about that later unless other options surface and there would have to be a demand for it to be worth while our time.


I hope this explains some of your questions and concerns! :wink:


P.S. I'm interviewing with PIXAR in a few weeks... :lol: Leaving the airline gig behind...
Talon
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Post by Talon » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:02 am

Thank-you.
I am putting the movies back to back with Vegas and will then burn to a DVD so that I can show it to my father. He will love to have this as well since he used to take me to all the Thunderbird shows while in the Air Force (Retired USAF).

Thanks for the suggestion made below! :D
Last edited by Talon on Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:09 am

If you re-render you will lose some quality and surround sound. I'd suggest plugging it into Sony DVD Architect, Nero Vision Express or similar DVD burning software. Just add the 4 parts as chapters and they will play "seamlessly". 8)
Talon
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Post by Talon » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:56 am

Worked perfectly doing it as you indicated Lawndart, going seamlessly into the next. Thank-you. Now to make copies as well for my brother and good friend who have slow internet connections.
Fantastic sound, video and What a Show!

Congratulations once again on "Smoke ON!" Virtual Thunderbirds.
:D
Stryker
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Post by Stryker » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:17 pm

I dont have a clue how to burn a DVD and after reading that I would lose HD and surrond sound as well, its probably not even worth trying....especially since my burner burns +R and my player plays -R.

I'd be interested in being able to purchase a ready made DVD when its made available.

Thanks
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:17 pm

When or rather IF that happens it will be sometime next year. For optimized quality on a standard DVD, I'd have to render a specific version for that purpose. Right now, the priority lies with getting the download out to servers that can handle the traffic and adding a few streaming sites (with good enough quality... not your average Youtube)! I'm sure between all these options (still in the works), you'll find a solution that works for you, otherwise we'll re-visit the official DVD option next year. In the mean time, more ways to watch/download are being added daily. Check the official announcement threads and posts for updates as they become available. 8)
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Post by veit » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:49 am

Is there a soundtrack listing somewhere?
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STRIKER
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Post by STRIKER » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:08 am

Yup, In the end credits.
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veit
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Post by veit » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:39 am

STRIKER wrote:Yup, In the end credits.
Yeah, just realized that after I posted. Why does that always happen. :roll:
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:19 pm

Since getting into movie making, I'm one of few people that actually stay and read the credits of movies when I go to the theaters nowadays. You really can learn a lot from it! :wink:
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Tailhook
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Post by Tailhook » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:31 pm

Hey guys I got a question about your Smoke On movie. When extracting it from the zip, do you get the same message as me- "WinRAR Diagnostic Error Message: Unexpected end of archive"
Last edited by Tailhook on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:35 pm

All the above. Several people have had problems with corrupt archives. I tend to think it's mostly due to people downloading during peak hours from the servers and getting a corrupt file when the server is stretched to the limits with multiple download requests and data transfers in the terabytes. Most people who got a corrupt zip, tried a mirror and/or downloaded it again and it has worked fine.
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Tailhook
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Post by Tailhook » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:37 pm

alright, i got a number of ideas to mess with this file but I will probably download a new thing if I am un-successful of what I will try.
thank LD
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:25 pm

Just wanted to show you guys (at least those of you who are familiar with Sony Vegas) the complexity of the time-grid used in the making of "Smoke On". This screenshot was taken back in early August and roughly covers the first 25 minutes of the movie (half the length of the movie). Every single clip also had its Special FX (effects) and camera panning, cropping and more created individually clip-by-clip. Although none of that can be seen here in view, this picture shows the grand scope of the workspace used during production...

...this was three months prior to release and shows only half of the movie, but it still looks quite "messy". Many additional FX were added late (i.e. more congested workspace than seen here), but it gives you an idea of what the time-grid in Sony Vegas looked like at a point in time during the making of the movie. The grid got a lot more crowded towards the end (and twice as long as seen here)! :lol:

Bonus FYI: More than 160GB of frap footage was used in the making of the movie!

Voila!
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