Brainstorming on an Aerobatics Module for Fighter Ops

[lqcorsa]

Great idea red8. Yes and maybe with Fighter Ops Aerobatics module, on the F/A-18 Hornet Blue Angel, it can be modded accordingly, for example take out the cannon and put in smoke tank, and take off pylon's and what not.

[Lawndart]

- The idea of being able to fly, save the replay and then fly again with that replay. ...Just an idea, if you dont understand I can try to explain it again...

Other names for it: Ghosting... Phantom (Control)... Tracing...

Already been brought up, but a very popular suggestion as it should be!

On a separate note, I think it goes without saying that the airplanes will be modeled accordingly to their real life counterparts with so much attention to detail and emphasis on realism in Fighter Ops in the first place. Never hurts to mention "the obvious" regardless as it sometimes gets overlooked though.

So far it seems most threads (not only in this forum) that I've read, bring up the features everyone wishes to "transfer" from Lock-On, just cannot fly without or wish wasn't a limitation of Lock-On etc. Think outside the box too! Training, tools, recording capabilities not part of any current sim are of course possibilities as well!

LD

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

I also would love some stunt objects like pylons, rings and stuff like that to create a stunt mission.... flying low altitude between pylons, inside rings, throu the fire, under bridges, landing on moving platform over trains. It would be very fun even if not very realistic and it would a a good tool to improve the piloting skills. Remember the rings race in FLight Unlimited 2 ?!! that was so cool.

When I was playing Forgotten battles some years ago, I did several mission online for stunts, with the campfire I did runway over impossible surfaces such as to pof mountains and we (the online comunity) did a lot of landing race, there was also a 20 minute pylon race (I spent few days to make it..) and I remember that people really appreciate it..

This is my idea of "out of the box", ok we have a cool combat sim but why not? let's add some map editor to create stunt mission, a nice stunt race at low altitude.

When I did it in hyperlobby the room was always full, and gunz was an option inside the race!

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

I think that ideas like these (stunt) let the comunity grows and create more interest in the sim also in those people who plays FB just becouse is not "difficult" as modern air combat of lockon.

More interest = more money = better sim in the future.

[Pacman]

Pacman -
I'm sure you have received some very insightful suggestions from members of the team already, but I will try to add a couple that I feel would be helpful to me.

Because we lack some of the sensory inputs that IRL pilots receive, I'd like to see an effort to substitute - and I'm specifically thinking of g force indicators other than blacking out. As a high g maneuver is initiated, we only have the HUD to indicate g force until we go so far tunnel vision and blackout is simulated. What I'm thinking, is maybe some visual indicator(color change, brightness, whatever), that would give us visual clues without having to look at that little number on the HUD, and would indicate g forces less than those close to physical limits, without restricting our vision.

A discussion has been done over on our boards. You may be interrested in reading this. http://www.fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5498

Another help would be accurate simulation of wind noise to give clues to airspeed other than instuments and HUD.

For sound we are looking into providing 3 settings.
1. realistic
2. Adapted for the people that like sounds ala Lomac, Falcon with more "soundclue's"
3. Custom (with some settings that the user can edit).

Multiple monitor, multiple view support would be very helpful, and this next one may be a pipe dream, but what about picture-in-picture for those without multiple monitors?

Dunno personally about picture in picture, but a multi monitor setup will be possible.

Flexible camera angles and camera motion.

...and can we get one of those big red "easy" buttons that will just anchor me to Boss's wing? - just kidding.

[Pacman]

Obviously support for such instruments as TrackIR. I think people would also like to see individual support for individual flight controllers (Cougar, X52, X45, etc)....such as there is a combat mode pre-programed in the game for the controls, as well as an aerobatic mode (i.e. smoke, boards, gear, etc)

Most controllers will work without intervention from the dev team.
This is the same for the ones you just mentioned. We will do our share where needed. Customisable joystick buttons is pretty normal in just about any sim I know of.

The basics TIR 6DOF is allready implemented....even in one of our first prototypes it was allready there.

Just some thoughts,
Screenies and sight looks great Pacman!

Thank you very much

Happy Flying!
Super Bugz

[Pacman]

I got a few...

Ability to fly in same cockpit on multiplayer (backseat)

I assume you are talking about MP flying with 2 people in the same aircraft each in his own cockpit. Like a training aircraft, T-6II, T-38C, F-16D,....
Allready planned for the first release, in the available aircraft for that release then.

Include paint's for aerobatic teams (eg: T-Birds, B-Angels ect.)

Modding policy will be released later down the track and is no discussion yet.

Awesome Single Player Campaign, with different, selectable roles that change the way the missions are handled (USAF, USM, USN)

Multiplayer Campaign

I noticed in the screenshots area, a Thunderbirds hanger, how about a Blue Angels hanger?



Carrier qualified aircraft (harrier, hornet, super hornet) with obviously an aircraft carrier or 2.

Something to look into with Naval ops, first things first.

Tailhooks on runways for emergency

Air Traffic Control

Very high multiplayer stability, to ensure easy formations that simulators such as Lock-On.

Allready set in design

The rest looks good XSI, keep up the good work.

Much appreciated!

[Pacman]

Ok heres my ideas...

1. The flight model to be much better and realistic compared to it in lock on.

Working on it

2. The Red Arrows hawk and skin.

3. The Freece Tricolori Jet and skin.

4. The Patrouille De France jet and skin.

Depending on resources, the aircraft available for the aero module will be the same as we release for the FighterOps module.
Know that the way we are aiming for realism, we cannot spit out an aircraft each month. That is just not realistic.
If FighterOps sells well we can always consider putting extra resources into the aerobatics module. In which case that the above aircraft can make their appearance sooner then later. Off course with the same eye to detail as our other aircraft.

5. The ability to have smoke on, on the ground (Jet effect like the smoke being blown away by the jet exaust, air and ground)

6. The smoke to be just as realistic as this....


Noted

And thats it!
hehe but my absolute desiers are (1,2,5 and 6)

[Pacman]

Hallo PacMan and thanx a lot to give us the opportunity to contribute to the develope of the sim.

Question:
The aerobatic module is intended to give the teams a tool to fly formation or it also include a training module from beginner to formation pilot?

I mean, do you also want to teach formation or you just provide the tool to do it?

Waiting on suggestions what one feels is needed.
Should this be a request from the community, then do not expect a single player training course in the first releases, as this is practically a sim on itself. And for the moment this is not our goal for this module.
Also most formation skills are learned and dealt with in the JSUPT and IFF courses.

The first implementations will be MP directed. And our will to support all the online virtual aerobatic squadrons.

About the training school it would be cool to ask to the real teams (I can help you in finding contacts of some pilots of Frecce Tricolori).

This may become helpfull in the future. I have had some excellent times with the gentlemen from Frecc Tricolori myself. A few years ago at Waddington AS we had a blast when they came to fly IL2 dogfights at our stand from the Belgian Virtual Tigers demoteam.

About the aerobatic module here I write some ideas. (some are important some not)

- Dedicated server (fastest home ADSL in my country only has 256Kb of upload )

Obviously

- Possibility to fly inside a previously recorded track, recording again a new track (good example in COndor Soaring Simulator, they call it ghost, you can do a 5 ship display by youself recording 5 times a track). It would be great becouse people can follow the lead of my track and do training offline

This one comes up pretty often and might be quite a challenge, definetly worth a discussion in teh dev team.

-integrated voice comms

-Tower view with autozoom (as many RC flight Sims with the aircraft positioned on top side of monitor) with video recorder (wanna see how the people see my flight in the most realistic way)

-Online profile of players (as in Battlefield), the more you pull Gs, the more your body (account) can resists to them. And when you reinstall you do't loose your account.

-Ground objects for visual reference (Frecce Tricolori in real airshows uses big colored air baloons placed on the ground).

-Parametric curve of throttle axis (I can decide if from 30% to 80% of my throttle controls just 70% to 90% of RPM), very usefull becouse many people have small built in throttle control in the joystick, easier to manage power in formation.

-Good templates for skin making (gotta be easy to understand how the parts are displaced)

-Limited smoke liquid (not unlimited smoke as in lock on. so that we have to consider smoke management), and double colors (with double controls).

- Aircraft turbolence, vortex and all those stuff

- Good engine sounds ( gotta be clear how I am moving the throttle)

OK most of the above are either obvious or noted.
BTW...real F-16 pilots hear close to nothing with their earplugs and helmets on. That was on a sidenote, the sound issue is answered in another post.

- ATC for the formation as a single flight, ability to select the correct answer to the atc with a up donw button (not just numbers as in FS2004, I'd like to do it on my hotas even if I have 15 possible answers)

- Realistic stalls and sideslips.

- Realistic Rudder

-Voice comms beeper, a tool that do a loud Beep when you release the voice button to synchronize the action called, the host should hear the beep in the same moment of clients (considering the avarage ping) to make sure he starts when the wingmen start. Red Arrows use the beep. The delay beep for leader is just an adaptation to simulated flight.

-A track cursor position control, I want to rewind and see how we did that loop dozens of times.

OK above noted or answered somewhere else.


I'm sure I have more ideas, these are the first part.

[Pacman]

OK, no worries.
I've noted all the rest of the posts in the docs.

I'll come back to answer some more later on

Thx gentlemen!

Dirk

[x15]

OK, no worries.
I've noted all the rest of the posts in the docs.

I'll come back to answer some more later on

Thx gentlemen!

Dirk

From your responses and attention to this thread there is now increasing confidence that XSI will lay forth their best effort in the creation of such a module and flight simulator program. Thanks!

Patiently waiting anxious customer,
X15

[Rhino]

Excellent responses Pacman....Nice to know that finally a sim producer is looking out for its customer and not just looking for more cash in their pocket!

WELL DONE SIR!!!

Happy Flying!!
SuperBugz

[lqcorsa]

Yep I think it's great that you guys are taking ideas from us, it re-assures me that this is going to be one of the coolest sims around. A few more that I stormed up today.

Amazing sound, including AI and multiplayer sound. The kind that you can just feel the rumble without having to really be there.

AI aircraft that fly in formations such as delta, and diamond ect. and have planned turns, so you can practice full airshows, so you don't have to find 5 other multiplayers.


AI boss has callouts (a little pppuuulllll, add a little power...)

Great sight distance, (so you can see your oposing solo) coming on the other side of the show center point, with easy snap too views that allow you to automatically view delta/solos in posistion relative to your cockpit.

More coming soon.

[Rhino]

While we are on the subject of sound, what about support for 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound? I cant think of anything better than flying in a delta or something and hearing individual jets powering up or down next to me. Just an idea!

[Jonnyb]

I allso think it would be a good idea to have the vapour coming of the top of the wings. Not like lock on where there is just those lines of te wingtips.

Example