F-15 fly-by at private airshow

Darrin · Post by **Darrin** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:37 pm

So, the SU-30 can outperform our frontline fighters - F-15, F-16, F-18 Super Hornet!!??

I mean, I know it's mainly about the pilot and his/her training, according to some, but it's hard to believe that our capabilities could be surpassed in such fashion. (Granted, watching an aircraft's fancy airshow maneuvers does not necessarily translate into a true advantage in combat.)

I've grown up marvelling at the F-14, F-15 and F-16 and their awesome performance abilites! It's just a little disappointing to think that there are other jets out there that can perform better and with such seeming aplomb.

And I hope I'm not offending anyone out there if my clear bias is coming through for American technology. But I am American and I've simply grown up believing (and being proud of the fact!) that our frontline defense was the best!!

Again, no disrespect is intended to anyone (please forgive me if anything I've said has offended anyone!), and I don't presume to know or suggest that our (American) fighters are the world's best.

Just an humble question/observation/reflection.

SilverOne · Post by **SilverOne** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:49 pm

lol you're right you know.... su-30 folks complain about having too much load when they're "up there", i still belive american sistem are much simpler ( dunno if they're better or what , for me they are ) but i usualy fly the su-27 on lock on. if i'm right a f.15 can have 9 g load ( dunno if im correct ) , a su 27 can have 10 g's. so the su can outermanouver the f15 just like the su-47 outruns the raptor.

EDIT: for some reason the SU had lots of problems , and most of flights with the f15 usualy no1 gets killed or shot down for some reason.

and if you take a good look on the HUD n front panel you notice it's much harder to read, it's like they don't wanna make life easy for the pilot. if you look at the canopy of a raptor or an f-16 , there is realy none of those "metals" that don't let you have full vision of what's infront of you, is the SU's that isn't applied, i feel much more comfortable on a f15 , becouse if you realy notice the sis are much simpler and easy to read, i look at an instrument whatever instrument , an altimeter or vertical speed indicator i quicly get the imformation into my head , on the su it isn't that presise i kinda have to stay lookin to see if im climbing 1500 feet per minute or 1900

that's my oppinion ofcourse.

Rock · Post by **Rock** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:57 pm

Interesting conversation that you bring up about performance between frontline fighters. I definately don't have any answers but can surely say that supposing you had the same skill level between pilots the results would vary not only depending on the jets that engaged each other but also from type of engagement. Are you talking about ACM engagements with guns only, ACM engagements with missles and guns or Beyond Visual Range Engagements? Certainly each of these types of arenas will produce different outcomes from jet to jet. For instance if you put up a F-15 vs F-16 BVR with only an air to air loadout I would suggest that the F-15 would win simply from the perspective of being able to carry a larger arsenal. I would suggest that the F-15 pilot could lock and launch from a further distance and put the viper pilot immediately on his heels. What I mean by this is that the although I am not sure which aircraft has the more powerful radar the F-15 pilot who has a larger weapons loadout is in the position to fire sooner and can even fire a "Maddog" just to gain a small advantage. At this point it would be in the eagle pilot's court. If the viper pilot turned back to engage after successfully jinking the inbound radar missle, then the F-15 pilot would have advantages in position, loadout, and speed which would surely be tough to defend against. But in close range guns only I would suggest that the F-16 would win the engagment by utilizing angles and speed management to out maneuver the F-15.

With modern fighters it is very difficult to say without actually having flown them, but I would say that there is no doubt that the F-22 is extremely dangerous given that it's radar is 360 degree capable and it's stealth capablities make it nearly impossible to lock on to. There is a good chance that you wouldn't know you were in danger until it was much to late. Now given all of the above don't forget about all of the other scenarios that can enter this discussion such as 2 vs 2 engagements, air support(awacs etc) and ground support(ground to air missle support). Makes for some great discussions!

STRIKER · Post by **STRIKER** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:45 am

Who cares if the guy can do a cobra when you, your awacs, and your other radar observers never even detected the F-22 that blew you outa the sky 15 miles away. I agree that kind of manuevering is a great benefit but I'd go with the one and only 5th generation fighter. Also, its better in my opinion to make the enemy think they are great and dont reveal your true front line fighter capabilities untill its necessary. Just my 2 cents.

5's clear

SilverOne · Post by **SilverOne** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:55 pm

Yes but there are eat following missiles, they can lock in to the raptor , but i extremely doubt you will have that chance...

also countermeasures aren't perfect, there is no 100 % counter measures that will make the missile go after the counter measures, there are even smart missiles when you're locked u better ejject before that thing hits or use a buildin has shield, the plane signal is stronger, mostly if you have after burner ( reheat ) on.

Rock · Post by **Rock** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm

Generally speaking, heat seeking missles are for short range engagements ie 5 miles or less. Again which type of engagement are we talking about? Which jets are engaged? What type of missle is being used and what generation? What makes the F-22 so deadly is the fact that it can detect you from almost any direction and it can move in with out being detected. This makes for an extremely dangerous weapons platform. You wouldn't be able to get a Heat Seeking missle off because firstly you wouldn't be able to see the Raptor and secondly the Raptor would use long range missles to eliminate your aircraft safetly from it's position behind you. That being said it's all heresay as only the real world pilots know for sure.

SilverOne · Post by **SilverOne** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:30 pm

Correct, i don't know how engaigments will be in the future , maybe it will be scary "up there" becouse at any moment you can be painted / locked / shot down by an stealth enemie plane, i don't know if sky will be safer for one of the sides , since both sides ( im talkin in general ( russia ) ( america ) , have stealth planes , not sayin there's goin to be a war....

"us" ( portuguese peeps ) have f-16 as and another version with no reheat ( YES IT IS HILARIUS ) .... , i think there is a verssion of the su 27 with back facing radar ... but not shure.

lol "has the real pilot"

EDIT: Who knows ... proobably there will be a knew kind of counter measure that will save you from all possible ways to be pursuited by a missile....

in my oppinon most f-15 pilots live due to TEWS, that automaticly deploys counter measures, this releases much "load" in the pilots hands.

not commenting enemy JAM...

each time the pilot deploy a counter measure it deploys : one chaff ( effective radar-guided missiles) and two flares ( used against eat-seeking missiles ) , becouse most of times the pilot doesn't know what type of missile is incomming

Darrin · Post by **Darrin** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:03 am

Oh, thanks guys for enlightening me!

Bottom line, no one will really know until it happens, I suppose.

But I guess each of us is still thinking and hoping our own jets will reign victorious.

lqcorsa · Post by **lqcorsa** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:57 pm

now what about top of teh line choppers vs. jets? lmao

SilverOne · Post by **SilverOne** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:52 pm

lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz i dunno who wins

but let's get on the topics , lol