RealSimulator FSSB R3 Warthog

Discussions about Cockpits, Joysticks & Setups
User avatar
Burner
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Burner » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:12 am

It's true. The quick movements available on a force stick get amplified through the net code and make things look bouncy- it happens. That said, force sticks are just fun. On the plus side, smoothness and pilot feedback were the reasons that the real F-16 force stick was given physical deflection and that this incarnation of the FSSB has built in deflection is exciting.

In the end, all the newest fighters rolling off the assembly line have force sticks. Hopefully this iteration will be a better approximation of the real deal. 8)
Image
User avatar
Teej
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 1495
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:29 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post by Teej » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:59 pm

Burner wrote:It's true. The quick movements available on a force stick get amplified through the net code and make things look bouncy- it happens. That said, force sticks are just fun. On the plus side, smoothness and pilot feedback were the reasons that the real F-16 force stick was given physical deflection and that this incarnation of the FSSB has built in deflection is exciting.
Well, they said that about the last one, too.

From R1/R2 product page:
The joystick barely moves replicating the displacement values of the real F-16 side stick controller.
User avatar
Cobra
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:41 pm
Location: OZ

Post by Cobra » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:17 pm

Hmm I am curious about the benefits of this as well. The FSSB on the Cougar was an elegant way around the deficiencies of the stock stick. As far as I can see the Warthog, once the sticktion issue is solved, doesn't have any issues.

Smooth as silk, accurate...

Is force sensing used on any modern stick apart from the Viper? Maybe that says it all.
Image
User avatar
Panther
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by Panther » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:09 pm

Cobra wrote:Is force sensing used on any modern stick apart from the Viper? Maybe that says it all.
Yes, the F/A-22 and F-35 both have force sensing sticks.
User avatar
Cobra
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:41 pm
Location: OZ

Post by Cobra » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Thanks Panther... Didn't know that.
Image
Beaker
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:19 am
Location: Colorado

Post by Beaker » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:24 pm

Burner wrote:That said, force sticks are just fun. On the plus side, smoothness and pilot feedback were the reasons that the real F-16 force stick was given physical deflection and that this incarnation of the FSSB has built in deflection is exciting.
That would be interesting! How much does the F-16 stick move? Was it 5 degrees in any direction?
Image
User avatar
Panther
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by Panther » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:02 pm

IIRC 1/4" fwd aft and 1/8" left right.
User avatar
Burner
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Burner » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:40 pm

Teej wrote:
Burner wrote:It's true. The quick movements available on a force stick get amplified through the net code and make things look bouncy- it happens. That said, force sticks are just fun. On the plus side, smoothness and pilot feedback were the reasons that the real F-16 force stick was given physical deflection and that this incarnation of the FSSB has built in deflection is exciting.
Well, they said that about the last one, too.

From R1/R2 product page:
The joystick barely moves replicating the displacement values of the real F-16 side stick controller.
Yeah everything moves when force is applied even a diamond. ;)

To me it's what is shown in that video, either the handle to shaft connection is beat to $hit and is loose or the R3 has much more deflection than the R1/R2.
Image
User avatar
Burner
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Burner » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:43 pm

Beaker wrote:
Burner wrote:That said, force sticks are just fun. On the plus side, smoothness and pilot feedback were the reasons that the real F-16 force stick was given physical deflection and that this incarnation of the FSSB has built in deflection is exciting.
That would be interesting! How much does the F-16 stick move? Was it 5 degrees in any direction?
The really slick part about the real F-16 stick is that it deflects in a linear spring fashion up to the max sensible force. So it is both a force stick and a deflection stick at the same time. :)
Image
User avatar
Teej
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 1495
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:29 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post by Teej » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:51 pm

Burner wrote:
Beaker wrote:
Burner wrote:That said, force sticks are just fun. On the plus side, smoothness and pilot feedback were the reasons that the real F-16 force stick was given physical deflection and that this incarnation of the FSSB has built in deflection is exciting.
That would be interesting! How much does the F-16 stick move? Was it 5 degrees in any direction?
The really slick part about the real F-16 stick is that it deflects in a linear spring fashion up to the max sensible force. So it is both a force stick and a deflection stick at the same time. :)
Nice.

Kinda funny...they show S/N 001 in that video. A guy I used to fly F4AF with got 002.
User avatar
Teej
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 1495
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:29 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post by Teej » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:42 pm

From said friend, posting over at SHQ...
Zero movement on the R3.

The R2 had a few mm of play, but there is none on the R3.

-Skater
User avatar
Teej
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 1495
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:29 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post by Teej » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:35 pm

Further comments...

Someone else asked about the blurb on the site about R3 movement.
If there is any movement whatsoever, I can neither see nor feel it.

-Skater

I asked about max pressure, curious if my 6# max deflection estimate based on extrapolating what was on the site said. He replies:
Not sure, as I have not done the full TM board change route yet. But from the stand alone, it seems like just a very light pull gives full deflection. You can literally fly with fingertip pressure. This will not translate well to WWII or WWI style fighter flying, but works well for high performance jets. I still like my R2 equipped Cougar or standard Warthog for the DCS A-10. We'll see once I complete a full board swap though...
Beaker
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:19 am
Location: Colorado

Post by Beaker » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:58 pm

Burner wrote:The really slick part about the real F-16 stick is that it deflects in a linear spring fashion up to the max sensible force. So it is both a force stick and a deflection stick at the same time. :)
That's a strange way of phrasing what you're trying to say, because the Hornet's stick also has simple spring return force, and also couples that return force with (hydraulic) feedbacks or "feel." (Yes, the difference is the Viper's control column uses load cells whereas the Hornet's uses a position sensor.)
Image
User avatar
Burner
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Burner » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:41 pm

Beaker wrote:
Burner wrote:The really slick part about the real F-16 stick is that it deflects in a linear spring fashion up to the max sensible force. So it is both a force stick and a deflection stick at the same time. :)
That's a strange way of phrasing what you're trying to say, because the Hornet's stick also has simple spring return force, and also couples that return force with (hydraulic) feedbacks or "feel." (Yes, the difference is the Viper's control column uses load cells whereas the Hornet's uses a position sensor.)
Yeah in essence it's the same as the Hornet stick, half deflection requires half the total force possible, it's just a much smaller deflection. But the difference is how a Viper stick can can detect micro meters of change in deflection with a load cell vs a position sensor in the Hornet stick.
Image
Beaker
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:19 am
Location: Colorado

Post by Beaker » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:02 pm

No doubt. The sensor step precision in the Hornet's stick is 12-bit, with a minimum digital stabilator command of 0.0083 degrees. (Further proof that the Warthog has just a silly number of precision steps! :mrgreen:)
Image
Post Reply