Beaker's center-stick project!

Discussions about Cockpits, Joysticks & Setups
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Ray
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Post by Ray » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:05 pm

Beaker wrote:Ray-

The top opening you described is exactly my plan, when I have the tools/materials again. (Christmas break! lol)

The radial spring arrangement was definitely something I considered, but I wasn't able to put it together in my head. I have a few more ideas how to make that happen now! It might be something to switch to, actually, it just requires a larger base and case box. Another difficulty with using that many springs is making sure they aren't brushing up against each other at any point. Other than that, the only other reason was that I'm not the first person to have used this basic design, and it has worked for others in the past. I'll have to look into that though, it's certainly feasible.

Just a thing to keep in mind for planning if you haven't already... No spring should ever compress to its relaxed state. It'll register as a 'click' in the movement and you'll lose the linear tension feel. I have all of these springs at about 175% extension and they can't possibly ever contract entirely.
Ah yea some good points. If what you have going has worked for others then it certainly makes sense to probably stay with that design.

Good point about the spring tension, yeah they'd have to always have tension, wish I had the materials to play around with something like you have in order get a better idea of how it would feel/how the spring tension would act.

I'm excited to see a prototype of yours!
Beaker
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Post by Beaker » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:28 pm

Materials list is actually really simple... a dead joystick handle, a little ingenuity, a trip to home depot for some steel pipe and connectors, a trip to a local scrap yard for a universal joint and some scrap sheet. (11 ga) and a friend who knows how to weld. :lol:

If you have the time, I really recommend it, it's a fun project! I'm just dyin to get the Hall Sensor mounts figured out, it's a tough part.
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:08 pm

Beaker wrote:The "box" is what will restrict the range of motion of the stick, so that part is pretty much non-negotiable.
I'm sorry, but (when I read that this thought came to mind)... "Think outside the box"! :wink:
Beaker
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Post by Beaker » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:18 am

Hah! :lol: Actually, that's true. I spent a long time thinking outside the box about that btw. :)

Interestingly, I broke one of the JB-weld joints today by pushing the joint all the way to its range of motion. I was concerned that would happen, I'll just have to wait to drill holes in the base for the lower spring joints.
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Bo#4
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Post by Bo#4 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:44 pm

Just curious, are you going to build a whole F-18 pit?
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Thumper
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Post by Thumper » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:11 pm

Beaker wrote:Interestingly, I broke one of the JB-weld joints today by pushing the joint all the way to its range of motion. I was concerned that would happen, I'll just have to wait to drill holes in the base for the lower spring joints.
Arc, Mig, Tig but never "JB" weld if you want anything to be reliable. If you can't weld, drill and bolt. JB weld is about one step above duct-tape.
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Beaker
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Post by Beaker » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:35 pm

Bow- Not the intention at this point!

Thump- Yeah. The rest of the joints on that are Mig, my friend is a welder so he helped me out with that. I don't have access to that sort of equipment now that I'm at school so I thought i'd give JB a try... not the best for that kind of use. I'll have to drill and run them up through the baseplate when I get home.
Last edited by Beaker on Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sinister
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Post by Sinister » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:14 pm

Gunner wrote:Now since your arm will be resting on your leg, does this mean you will no longer be able to wear a G-suit? :wink:
BLUE ANGELS don't need no stinkin G-suits mang!

:lol:

Great idea Beaker, keep us updated on this!
shylock
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Post by shylock » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:13 am

Looking pretty sweet there Beaker. I was tooling around with some plans not too long ago, but I had ran out of flux for the mig and got to lazy to go to Home Depot. Now it is used as a helmet rack. Look forward to seeing your finished project.
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Scott "Shylock" Berge
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Beaker
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Post by Beaker » Thu May 27, 2010 8:26 pm

Work continues! Lots of electrical stuff done now, and I've settled on a CH Combatstick grip for the quality of buttons and construction. (If the movement on their sticks wasnt so terrible, they would be fantastic!)


I've completed the Combatstick grip, sensor arms, Hall sensor magnets, Hall Sensor mounts and wiring, base to lower D-sub wiring, upper wiring and D-sub connector, and 16 separate pieces of metal cut and drilled (ready to be welded) to extend the base and provide connection for 8 springs total. The upper range-of-motion-limiting plate will be made of 4 separate rectangles of 11ga sheet, and mounted on top of the 8 spring posts. All in all, it brings the size of the box to about 15 x 15 x 11"(h). There will now be 8 total springs, with a total of 18 pounds of force a piece. I haven't done the trig to figure out how that will affect the tension at the grip.


I've also done considerable testing with the BU0836A and found that with hall sensors and only part of the sensor range (partial voltage because the stick obviously doesn't rotate 180 degrees,) the motion is glassy smooth in-game and affects the in-game stick more smoothly than any controller I've seen. I don't know how much of this is the 12-bit precision of the BU0836A, and how much is the Hall Sensors.


Also on the BU0836, I've tried using the stick's buttons in-game (success,) and even applied a metal DPDT toggle switch to use for gear with awesome result... switch up? Gear up. Switch down? Gear down.


Really, all that's left to do is weld the base extensions and spring posts, weld the "restriction plate," solder the lower D-sub, mount the metal assembly to a wooden baseplate, bolt down and protect the BU0836 with an enclosure, epoxy the Hall Sensor assemblies to the sensor arms, and hook it up! All of those things will take just a few more good days of work.


Can't wait to use this thing! I know the throw will be precisely that of a Hornet's control stick, and I imagine it will be a blast to pull out of a loop without putting all of my energy into not bouncing! :wink:


Some photos for anyone interested:

BU0836A with Hall Sensor assembly wiring installed.
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Hall Sensor assemblies.
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CH Combatstick grip with a 1/2" threaded steel pipe embedded in the handle. The crude bolt you see running through ensures the grip has no room to slip. It doesn't interfere with my hand on the grip at all, and the excess bolt will be trimmed.
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Universal joint with sensor arms and 1/4" Neodymium magnet cubes. The arms hold still at the attitude of the spider (center "cross" axis in the U-joint,) and the magnets rotate with the yokes. The Hall Sensor assemblies will be attached to the sensor arms and pointed directly at the magnets, as close to the surface of the magnet as possible.
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Getting close!
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Teej
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Post by Teej » Thu May 27, 2010 8:30 pm

Thumper wrote:JB weld is about one step above duct-tape.
That's saying something.

Duct tape was Lucas' inspiration for 'The Force'.

It has a dark side and a light side and it binds the universe together.
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Teej
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Post by Teej » Thu May 27, 2010 8:33 pm

Nice work, Beak...except your 3 pin connectors look a bit...uh...unreliable. ;)
Beaker
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Post by Beaker » Thu May 27, 2010 10:04 pm

Yeah... not pretty, but solid. I don't have all the tools I'd like to. Let me tell ya, soldering the D-Sub connector solder cups with 1/16" diameter solder is like fitting a bowling ball in a straw... :lol:

Never advertised as pretty. :lol:
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Sinister
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Post by Sinister » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:51 am

I'm glad to see an update on this Beaker...
I have been following it ever since.

Can't wait to see the final results.

You'll have to make a video of it.
Beaker
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Post by Beaker » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:30 am

Will do! I've done a bit of welding since, but made a calculation error on the top-plate shape. I did some trig to make the opening exactly the right size to give me the range of motion of a Hornet's stick, but unfortunately with the sensor arms impeding the yokes at the extreme ends of the axes, I don't have that much travel to play with. I'll have to have slightly less travel in the roll axis.

As far as the welding goes, I still need to do braces on the vertical posts, and then weld a new top-plate down. Then it's just hooking up springs, mounting hall sensors, running wire through the base, and soldering one last d-sub connector... and it's DONE! :D Can't wait to get a chance to finish the welding and use it.


Note the rust from work cut short by rain outside... :lol: Failed top-plate is beside the rig so far. You might notice that the vertical extensions aren't uniformly vertical... and they aren't. It was very difficult to even get them on that precisely with their semi-uneven bases. I can actually bend them to a more even position, but I haven't taken the time:

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With unfinished/failed top-plate in place.
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