CCP vs. LOMAC curves

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Lawndart
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CCP vs. LOMAC curves

Post by Lawndart » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:01 am

  • Please disregard the upper and lower deadzones in these screenshots. Those refer to the lbs-settings derived by using the FSSB Resistance Calculator and may vary based on your own FSSB hardware settings (6, 8, 10, 21 lbs etc.) as well as the desired force. More on that topic can be found in the FSSB resistance thread.
  • Also, the in CCP "trim" is the same thing called "shift" in LOMAC, and in both cases use a neutral setting ("0" in CCP and "50%" in LOMAC, which means no trim/shift is being applied in either graph).
  • That brings us to the curves and center deadzone (highlighted areas). Since we prefer to have identical pitch (y-axis) curves, while allowing the proper use of our "connect trim" feature, everyone sets their curves up in LOMAC with 10% deadzone and 40% curve, but when it comes to roll (x-axis) and rudder (z-axis) that could vary depending if the pilot is using gameport pedals or USB pedals as well as personal preferences. As you cen tell from the images below, the y-axis is setup with "0" deadzone and "0" curve in CCP, while using 10%, 40% respectively in LOMAC, however, for the x-axis and z-axis "10%" deadzone in CCP and a "-7" curve is used in CCP, while setting up 0%, 0% respectively in LOMAC. This way you always end up with 10% center deadzone no matter which method is used to tweak the curves and a curve value of either 40% in LOMAC or a "-7" in CCP. Do not use curve in both graphs for the same axis at the same time! Using this method in combination with the resistance calculator makes transitioning to different FSSB forces easy and allows everyone to continue using the same "pull profile" (-yaxis profile).

    NOTE: 40% curve in LOMAC equals approx a "-7" curve in CCP.
These screenies should help explain further the relationship between curves and center deadzones for CCP vs. LOMAC.

Center deadzone and curve settings for the roll axis
Image

Center deadzone and curve settings for the pitch axis
Image

Center deadzone and curve settings for the rudder axis
Image


P.S. If you are using rudder pedals that do not hookup directly to the gameport on the Cougar, you'll need to use the LOMAC curves setup for your rudders, since CCP only recognizes pedals connected directly to the Cougar.
Last edited by Lawndart on Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Redeye
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Post by Redeye » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:21 am

Checked my settings and all are good.
Looking at the FSSB resistor calculator, LD is using 13lb and I use 12lbs.

I recently tried the in game Y axis shift @ 5 1/2 and not 5 (middle). So it indicates just right of the center mark. It's a smoother feel and still gives enough for everything I need to do as #3.
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Convertible
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Post by Convertible » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:44 pm

So is this a setup you would recommend for just those that have the FSSB or for all other stick setups for the cougar (i.e. stock or NXT)?

Con
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Lawndart
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Post by Lawndart » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:50 pm

I'd recommend these curves for everyone (50, 10, 40% in LOMAC or 10% center deadzone, "0" trim and "-7" curve in CCP).

NOTE: We all set 50, 10, 40% in LOMAC for the y-axis. You won't be able to use our "connect trim" function properly if you tweak your y-axis curve in CCP the way this feature works right now.

Also, if you're using a gimbal/stock Cougar, just leave the upper and lower deadzones at default (0-5%) in CCP. For the FSSB owners these values limit the lbs by having you "max out" your axis at a lower poundage, but for a stock Cougar they actually limit stick travel (which you do not want to do). The rest of it though works the same way, which means we can all have the same graph setups regardless of stick in the end.
Redeye wrote:I recently tried the in game Y axis shift @ 5 1/2 and not 5 (middle). So it indicates just right of the center mark. It's a smoother feel and still gives enough for everything I need to do as #3.
My personal recommendation is to not use shift. Despite it being smoother etc. shifting changes everything (i.e. curves and poundage). If you shift your graph to "flatten" out, it will do two things at the same time: 1). Your curve won't be equivalent to 40% anymore despite saying 40% when you compare to someone else's; 2). Your maximum deflection will be limited to a lower value than the jet actually allows.

Let me give you a drastic example: When I first flew Gunner's pit, the reason I had such a difficult time flying it wasn't because a high lbs-setting at all, but at the time Gunner had a huge amount of shift in the roll axis. The roll inputs were smooth, but it also meant his maximum deflection roll rate was about 150 degrees per second vs. my 320 degrees per second. That's less than half the available roll rate while flying the same airplane I was used to flying! Think about that for a second and what that would do to your Bon Ton Roll when we say "use maximum deflection"! In order for everyone to fly the same jet, the value that most easily limits or makes indirect changes to your graph is "shift". While it can be made smoother, you're limiting your jet's performance severely. This could have considerable and undesirable side-effects in max/min inputs available and ultimately mean your curve gets distorted indirectly as well. Secondly (for FSSB users), unless the "shift" is tweaked the same way for your y- and x-axis the 0.68 ratio in poundage goes out the window too, because of the lbs "shifting" to achieve max deflection earlier/later in the graph in comparison with the other axis (in other words making the stick less/more sensitive and for FSSB users that translates to a different number of lbs necessary to move the jet, exponentially making it "lighter/heavier" in one axis unless both use the same exact "shift" value). Even still, if they use the same shift, problem #1 still exists: A virtual limit (of max deflection) is installed to how much pull/roll can be achieved for the benefit of smoothness.

That's why I don't like it, because in the end we could end up flying different jets and max stick deflection to one person is way different than someone else's. It also means the curves will feel different despite both pilots using 40% for example.

Individually setting deadzone and curve is one thing, but shift really changes everything and then some...


Lastly, a correction to my original post:
Lawndart wrote:Also, the in CCP "trim" is the same thing called "shift" in LOMAC, and in both cases use a neutral setting ("0" in CCP and "50%" in LOMAC, which means no trim/shift is being applied in either graph).
The "trim" sort of works the same way as "shift" in LOMAC, but only as long as the LOMAC "shift" is 50% or above. If you use "shift" in LOMAC less than 50% it rotates the graph in a way that equals adjusting your upper and lower deadzones in CCP.

Moral of the story & my 2 cents: Stay away from shift if you want to be able to "max perform" your jet! :wink:
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