Attended the show today at Tinker AFB, (am also going tomorrow, and taking the good camera, will try to get some good pics). It was a typically fantastic show, but I did have a couple of questions about a couple of things...

They performed a low show, and while there were some clouds around the airfield, there was hardly any clouds at all over the field, so one question is what are the determining factors for each show? i.e. high, low, flat...and it was a low show from the start, diamond takeoff, no loop or cloverleaf on takeoff, 2 sneak passes (which is just fine with me!) and what coulda passed for a third one, when nos. 5 and 6 join to form the delta, they come from behind and there is a hanger there, so you don't see 'em till they're right on top of ya...good times.

2nd question would be was that was no knife edge pass, nos. 5 and 6 just passed straight and level for that maneuver, I do believe it was announced as the opposing knife edge, but it was hard to hear. I'm guessing they didn't get the proper "hit" they needed to perform it?

Like I said, no complaints, it was a fantastic show that everyone enjoyed. And my 6 year old got to meet Capt. Jelinek , and have her pic taken with him!

spaz wrote:They performed a low show, and while there were some clouds around the airfield, there was hardly any clouds at all over the field, so one question is what are the determining factors for each show? i.e. high, low, flat...and it was a low show from the start, diamond takeoff, no loop or cloverleaf on takeoff...

The fact that the 2010 team is flying an unusual number of Low Shows this season is something that's been noticed by several fans. The regs call for a ceiling of at least 8,000 for a High Show. Most previous years they've gone mainly on PIREPs rather than relying strictly on official WX/METARs to call for something else. I'm not sure how much of this is the Leader's discretion vs. "higher ups" calling the shots for what the team can and cannot do anymore, but all I can say is in the past I've seen the team opt for the High Show with broken coverage below 8K as well as scattered whispies at lower levels.

Regarding the Diamond Loop on Takeoff (DLOT) see my previous response to a similar question asked by another user here. If the team took off for a Low Show the DLOT wouldn't have been flown regardless, but that post may be a little more informative for why the team might not by flying the DLOT even during High Show takeoffs at the moment.

spaz wrote:2nd question would be was that was no knife edge pass, nos. 5 and 6 just passed straight and level for that maneuver, I do believe it was announced as the opposing knife edge, but it was hard to hear. I'm guessing they didn't get the proper "hit" they needed to perform it?

The Solos perform three opposing passes: 1) Opposing Knife Edge (OpKE); 2) Opposing Inverted (OpInv), and; 3) Opposing Split S (OpSS).

The OpSS has a knife edge pass on the second pass after the reversal and the narrator does mention this over the speakers, however, the initial pass of the OpSS has the "hit" in straight & level flight right as the Solos pull back on their sticks and into the vertical to begin the Split S'.

If the OpKE (the first opposing pass during the show) on the other hand had both Solos passing each other in straight & level flight it would indicate that (most likely) No. 6 could not acquire a tally on No. 5 for the optical hit and the maneuver was aborted. It could possibly also mean that one of the pilots had a caution light illuminate sometime between commencing the run-in for the maneuver and the pass itself. To remain predictable to everyone in the demo they'd still fly their profiles (groundtracks) as if the maneuver was performed, but without the actual "hit" and then peel off to troubleshoot. If the show was uninterrupted afterwards the latter is less likely the cause, and the most common reason for an abort would've been that one of the pilots weren't able to obtain a visual and the maneuver was aborted. (I've seen this happen before due to residual smoke from the Diamond that drifted in over the show line making it incredibly hard to see anything).

Timing is rarely the reason for an abort for opposing passes, and even if they are as grossly off as 2-4 seconds during the run-in (which translates to over a 1/4 mile error by show center) corrections can still be made so that the "hit" happens right at show center. That being said, they have to be within the same split second to pass each other within even as much as 500 feet down the show line, and to put that into perspective most "hits" occur within 0-100 feet of show center, hence why what the Solos do requires precision flying. When each pilot is traveling at 520 mph a split second mistake in timing eats up a lot of distance over the ground... The timing mistake would have almost had to occur prior to the run-in for the maneuver to be aborted and just flown through straigh & level, and if they still passed each other in the vicinity of show center, I doubt that was the reason in this case.

Timing takes probably the most precision at the speeds the Thunderbird Solos fly, yet ironically it would take a relatively large error to abort the maneuver if that makes sense.


P.S. Glad your daughter got to meet Ice, it will make for some great memories as she gets older!

Thanks for the info Lawndart...

And yea, it was a low show from the start, there were no looping maneuvers at all. I'm not sure if the atmospheric "density" would have anything to do with it or not, I'm not the resident weatherman, but it was around 97 at showtime, with humidity in the upper 60's, low 70's.

As far as the solos, they passed in level flight right at show center, (I was standing directly in front of the trailer marking centerpoint) there was no interruption in the show following, and the remainder of the opposing passes went off without a hitch...

I did read a post on another site, regarding this show, and it was stated that several maneuvers were missed, that #3 had a really rough day, and so on. I can only say that the only one I saw "missed" was the knife edge, and all others looked fine to me, and apparently most of the 60,000 people there. I for one, enjoyed myself!

On another note, on Sunday the demo was flown with #4 flying the 2 seater, (he also flew it on Saturday), but on Sunday an external fuel tank was attached under the belly. It wasn't there on Saturday's show. What would be the reason for this?

In some cases the external fuel tank might be used to put the D model's fuel capacity "on par" with the C model for remote shows, however, I'd guess in this case it was attached sometime Saturday evening in order to save time for the departure back to Nellis AFB following Sunday's show.

The C model has ~7,200 lbs of internal fuel. The family model carries about 5,800 lbs. Ctr line tank holds 300 gal (2,000 lbs) of fuel, and weighs approx 500 lbs empty. The external wing tanks hold 370 gal (2,500 lbs) of fuel each and weigh approx 700 lbs empty with a pylon attached. There's a fair amount of labor attaching one of these, so I'm sure they opted to do it prior to Sunday's show and the RTB.