Thunderbird 5 and 6 Maneuvers

necigrad · Post by **necigrad** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:01 am

Maybe I should have searched, but I have a feeling this hasn't been asked before. As I understand it, When the new solo joins the team he is #6. The next year he becomes #5, but flies the same manuvers for both seasons. Now, the script say the #5 is upside down because he spens so much time upside down during the show. But wouldn't #6 be upside down more every other year? OR are their inverted time equal, and then why isn't the #6 upside down too? I'm guessing it's just a gimmick thing, but it kinda popped into my head yesterday.

WCD-01/WILDCAT · Post by **WCD-01/WILDCAT** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:13 am

Well that whole #5 upside down thing is why his number on the aircraft painted upside down. If you Join the team as number 6 then yes you go to number 5 but your movements are not the same as lead solo though you do perform some of the same maneuvers as the previous year. The lead solo performs more inverted solo maneuvers than #6 so as the lead solo you have to do things you never did as #6. As the new pilot i think they want you use to the team before performing the maneuvers #5 does. Remember some pilots dont come in having fly the F-16 in the fleet. Like the new opposing solo Capt. Samantha Street she was flying the F-15 and now has to become use to the F-16 in which im sure is different in dynamics and high speeds. Thats just what i think, somebody could have more in depth on this

Post by **Lawndart** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:25 am

This has been asked a few times during the years and I did a search, but decided to answer it again instead of having you skim through a bunch of threads with the answer.

The Solos are referred to as Left Solo and Right Solo. When you enter as a Solo you "inherit" a profile; either left or right. That includes all the maneuvers as well as the wing position on the Delta. During the 2nd season the Opposing Solo (1st year) moves into Lead Solo (2nd year), but keeps the entire profile with all the maneuvers flown the 1st season.

The reason No. 6 never spends more time inverted than No. 5 is because as Lead Solo, you are always inverted during the Calypso Pass and Reflection Pass while the remainder of the inverted passes are equal between the Opposing Solo and Lead Solo (as well as Right Solo and Left Solo profiles). This is why they say: "...you may have noticed that the number five aircraft has it painted up-side-down, this is because our Lead Solo spends most of the demonstration in the inverted position".

You are correct about it being a gimmick mostly with the up-side-down number. Some years they've had it on their flight suits, other years not in addition to the jets.

The reason No. 5 is inverted and not No.6 during Calypso and Reflection Passes (hence also the most inverted pilot on the team), is not because it's harder per se to fly inverted than it is to fly a diametrically opposed formation as No. 6 does in those two maneuvers; but, because the inverted pilot is the leader (not wingman) and it's his responsibility as Lead Solo to set the timing, fly the profiles and adjust constantly to the Boss (and Diamond) throughout the show. It's safe to say that a 2nd year pilot who's well in tune with the demo and has more experience in this area, therefore becomes the Lead Solo (why the pilot in No. 6 becomes No. 5 the second season). It has little to do with any maneuvers being harder than others, since they are inherited with the Left and Right Solo profiles. No. 5 must have good situational awareness and fly "lead" in between the Boss' (and Diamond) passes. So, to sum up: The Opposing Solo's job is to match (and learn), while the Lead Solo's job is to lead (and keeping things on track as the more experienced solo pilot).

The following two solo profiles flip-flop each year between No. 5 and No. 6; however, the pilot performing in each profile is still the same when he moves from Opposing Solo to Lead Solo during the second season on the team.

Left Solo Maneuvers
Opposing Knife Edge (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; matches)
High-Speed Inverted
Knife Edge
8-Point
Calypso (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; flies formation)
Crossover Break (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; flies formation)
Opposing 4-Point (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; matches)
High-Alpha Pass
Vertical Rolls
Max Turn-Half Cuban
Solo Hit (High-BB)
Reflection Pass/Pitch (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; flies formation)

Right Solo Maneuvers
Opposing Knife Edge (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; matches)
I-to-I
Slow Roll
Aileron Rolls
Calypso (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; flies formation)
Crossover Break (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; flies formation)
Opposing 4-Point (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; matches)
Sneak Pass
Hi-Lo Hit
Five Card
Line Break Loop
Reflection Pass/Pitch (if Lead Solo; leads, if Opp Solo; flies formation)

Note: When the Solos are together they are referred to as "Blue" by the Boss. This is simply because each element of the 6-ship formation is named by color. No. 1-2 are "Red", No. 3-4 are "White" and No. 5-6 are "Blue". During a show you'll only hear "Blue" being called though such as: "...Blue's Tally... Blue Join it Up" or "Standby Blue, Blue Out Ready Now"!

P.S. The new No. 6 (Right Solo) for 2007 is Capt. Samantha "Combo" Weeks.

WCD-01/WILDCAT · Post by **WCD-01/WILDCAT** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:52 am

lol sorry for the name mix there

wasnt payin attention to my typing, but yea that pretty much explains it

necigrad · Post by **necigrad** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:40 pm

Thanks Lawndart, far more then I was expecting. I actually regret posting now knowing that it's been asked before, but oh well. I figured individually the questions had been asked, but not in relationship to one another. Another day, a little bit smarter...

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:40 pm

Hey just wondering about this years solos who performs the aileron roll and who performs the Split S on their takeoffs? Thanks!

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:55 pm

Nevermind I used my stupid mind to figure it out. Maj Casey does the aileron roll and Maj Weeks the Split S correct?

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:12 pm

One more question....does #5 fly upside down in both the calypso pass and reflection pass? If not could someone please explain those to maneuvers please.

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:01 am

FutureThunderbird wrote:One more question....does #5 fly upside down in both the calypso pass and reflection pass? If not could someone please explain those to maneuvers please.

Yes. Hence the reason the 5 is upside down on the jet.

Post by **Lawndart** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:16 am

Yes - Lead Solo is always inverted in the 2-ship passes.

At first I thought you were talking about a different maneuver which the Aileron Rolls would be. The Roll On Takeoff (ROTO), (by the left solo), is performed this season by Maj. Casey.

Atlas · Post by **Atlas** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:46 am

That was a great explanation Lawndart, really indepth.

STRIKER · Post by **STRIKER** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:21 pm

Sabertooth wrote:That was a great explanation Lawndart, really indepth.

Exactly why I didnt reply...Anything more than one or two sentences and Im already feeling like Im writing a book. LD on the other hand isnt happy untill Vol. IV of his reply isnt over 400 pages!

FutureThunderbird · Post by **FutureThunderbird** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:23 pm

Ok but that does lead me to another question about the reflection pitch, if #5 is flying upside down wouldn’t that mean #6 is pitching before #5?

Atlas · Post by **Atlas** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:38 pm

HAHAHAHA!!!! Striker, I have noticed that about LD...very thorough.

Tailhook · Post by **Tailhook** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:55 pm

Lawndart wrote:P.S. The new No. 6 (Right Solo) for 2007 is Capt. Samantha "Combo" Weeks.

hopefully she wont mess up as much as the current one

STRIKER wrote:Exactly why I didnt reply...Anything more than one or two sentences and Im already feeling like Im writing a book. LD on the other hand isnt happy untill Vol. IV of his reply isnt over 400 pages!

ya mean Smoke On...long?