[2010-01-15] Meet the T-38 Talon and its History

[Lawndart]

At least in your T-38 renderings, you have the Thunderbirds lined up like a Navy formation rather than an Air Force formation. Off lead's left wing is 2, 5, 7, etc. Off the right is 3, 4, 6, etc. Conversely, the Navy lines them up even numbers on the left and odd on the right.

Actually, the Air Force has always had #2 on the left wing and the solo pilot outside of him (on the Thunderbirds) could be either #5 or 6 depending on whether that pilot was recruited as a "right solo" or a "left solo" when he began his first season with the team.

The Navy (Blue Angels) has always had the odd numbers (#3, 5) on the left wing off of Boss and the even numbers (#2, 6) on the right wing off of Boss. Unlike the Thunderbirds where a "right solo" (or "left solo") keeps his profile even as he transitions from #6 and becomes #5 during his second season, the Blue Angel solo pilot switches from the outer right wing to outer left wing in the Delta during his second year.

Thanks for your comments and welcome to our forums!

[Ray]

You guys are something else!

Thanks

Your work is fantastic. I hope my comments add to it.

Welcome to the forum and thanks to you both! We really appreciate it.

I did a Google search and I see that you're both Thunderbirds from the Talon era - very cool!

[bobgore]

I realizeded my error in how Navy planes line up and edited my post, obviously not before your reply.

Regarding Thunderbird line-up, Hoot Gibson started the second solo in the F-100Cs. From that time until the F-16s the second solo was #6 and promoted to #5 in his second year, the reason being that #5 called all hits and corrections. #6 was, in effect, training for #5. Six was always the new guy. Nobody I have talked with remembers anything about switching 5 and 6 in the formation in that time, a memory confirmed by my photos.

When the team was rebuilt in the F-16, pilots were hired into either position to spend their two years in the same position. They might have switched their position in large formations as you say. But it appears as though the most modern teams have adopted the origina lead/opposing rotation of promoting 6 into the 5 airplane in his second year.

One thing I cannot find either in photos or via phone calls is the Thunderbird wing prior to the F-16 being anything but 1, 2, 5 on the left and 1, 3, 6 on the right with 4 in the slot while in demo ops. If you find anything else, I'd appreciate your letting me know.

[Lawndart]

...From that time until the F-16s the second solo was #6 and promoted to #5 in his second year, the reason being that #5 called all hits and corrections. #6 was, in effect, training for #5. Six was always the new guy. Nobody I have talked with remembers anything about switching 5 and 6 in the formation in that time, a memory confirmed by my photos.

When the team was rebuilt in the F-16, pilots were hired into either position to spend their two years in the same position. They might have switched their position in large formations as you say.

The only difference, it would seem, is that nowadays (starting with the Falcon era in 1983) each new Solo Pilot is hired into either the right or left solo profile (including all the maneuvers flown by the previous "right solo" or "left solo") throughout their entire time on the team, even as the transition from Opposing Solo (No. 6) to Lead Solo (No. 5) still occurs as you describe between the first and second year.

You're also correct about No. 5 always being to the left of No. 2 in all photos from the T-38 Talon era dating back several decades (something I frankly wasn't aware of until you just pointed it out - Thank You).


To further clarify the positioning of the jets for anyone else reading this, here's a summary of what it boils down to (if I got everything right - ):

• Thunderbirds 1953-1961 only had a single solo routine. Dual solo routine first began in 1962.
• Thunderbirds 1962-1982 would have No. 2, 5... on the left side of Boss, and No. 3, 6... on the right side of Boss (except during the years when the team went back to only having five jets in the demo, in which case No. 3, 4... would be on the right side of Boss).
• Thunderbirds 1983-Present have No. 2 on the left side of Boss, and No. 3 on the right side of Boss, while the Solos (No. 5/6) alternate which side of the formation they fly on each year since the (left/right) profile dictates where they are found, not the number on the jet itself as the Opposing Solo becomes the Lead Solo.
• Blue Angels have No. 3, 5 (odds)... on the left side of Boss, and No. 2, 6 (evens)... on the right side of Boss.

[Blaze]

CBS 60 Minutes broadcast in 1982 after the Thunderbirds crash in Nevada. A "Royal Air Force Tribute" by the Red Arrows.

[Lawndart]

Remembrance bump.

30 years ago today, the course of Thunderbird history was forever changed. God speed boys!