Click here to view the listing.
LD
eBay - modded HOTAS Cougar item for sale
eBay - modded HOTAS Cougar item for sale
Found this on eBay: Well worth checking out and possibly bidding on if you are looking for a Cougar. Sounds like it has the older Uber mod (prior to the NXT), but none the less may be well worth the money, considering not only all that, but the rest of the included items...
Click here to view the listing.
LD
Click here to view the listing.
LD
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Rotorblade
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:57 pm
Thats cool! Quick question, what does Bon use for a mod on his Cougar? How does the UberMod NXT stack up to the FSSB? Has anyone ever used the Ubermod? is it any better then the frame and springs in the standard Cougar. I know the description of that ebay sale referred to the Ubermod making it stronger but that isn't a good description. I figure my cougar is already strong. Any insight into this would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Thanks!
FSSB - force sensor mod by Realsimulator. No moving parts what-so-ever.
NXT - evolution of the Ubermod by IJ. Made professionally on a CNC machine and extremely accurate and smooth coupled with Hall Sensors.
Ubermod - the first generation of the "NXT" by IJ.
Surf over to Cougar World and read about the mods and tweaks! Link can be found on our links page. Basically, there is no comparison between the stock version and the mods from either Realsimulator or IJ.
LD
NXT - evolution of the Ubermod by IJ. Made professionally on a CNC machine and extremely accurate and smooth coupled with Hall Sensors.
Ubermod - the first generation of the "NXT" by IJ.
Surf over to Cougar World and read about the mods and tweaks! Link can be found on our links page. Basically, there is no comparison between the stock version and the mods from either Realsimulator or IJ.
LD
I'm sponsored by Thrustmaster, so... you guess the answer! -
Convertible
- Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:59 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
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STRIKER
- Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
- Posts: 826
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:02 am
- Location: Amarillo, TX
Make the switch now bud....you wont regret it....and thats coming from my experience working on with them in real life as an avionics specialist....although as of today Im a Helicopter Flight Engineer!!!! JUST GOT MY WINGS!!!!! BEER IS ON ME TONIGHT!!!!!Gunner wrote:LD-
I'm a lowly X-52 user for now - am convinced I need a Cougar with FSSB mod. Right now, I can't justify cost of both - should I go ahead and get the stock cougar, or keep practicing with the X-52 for a while
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Burner
- Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:08 pm
- Location: New Orleans, LA
Bon uses the NXT, Ian J's most recent gimbal mod.
LD is more the expert on this subject b/c he's used both extensively. I use the FSSB currently and I have used LDs NXT briefly. However I have examined the mechanical workings of each and studied spring dampened responses in Control theory classes.
Basically the NXT allows for smooth accurate control. The gimbal springs are tensioned against each other which leads to an almost neutral pull force progression throughout its range of motion. However the light springs do little to offset or dampen the weight of the stick handle itself. Meaning that inputs are prone to overshoot before the muscles in the hand and forearm dampen out the input. For leading this is really no problem at all as the Boss is moving the stick so slowly and carefully that the handle can't build any momentum. However for wing flying its a little slap dash. Now don't misunderstand its still head and shoulders above stock gimbals due to its tight tolerances and hall sensors. Also the overshoot is something that could probably be corrected with stronger NXT springs, which either the maker or someone on the Cougar World Forums sells I can't remember exactly who right now- bottom line they are a standard linear spring of about a 3/8" dia. coil and 2.5" length which you can easily find online at whatever spring force you want!
The FSSB can also be thought of as spring mounted except the spring and dampening are built into the mounting plate itself. The plate goes thru a very slight plastic deformation which allows the top of the handle to move about 3-5mm when about 20lbs of force is applied at the point of the middle and ring fingers. To the naked eye the movement is almost non-existant, this sucker is sprung TIGHT. This means inputs quickly stop with almost zero overshoot. Its absolutely magical for wing and solo flying. It reads your mind, granted when you first use it you'll want to over control. However, once you get over the over-controlling you'll be able to go from the subtle to full deflection inputs with complete precision- took me about 5 flight hours to get to where I was flying better than with a stock Cougar.
Now it can't be all sunshine mind you. The FSSB is not the best choice for leading. I would consider it better than stock gimbals but only slightly (each has its own unique issues). The tight spring force of the FSSB prohibits a completely smooth and consistent pull due to the decreasing precision of the good ol' M1 human forearm as force is increased, and limited "feel" feedback. Keep in mind when wing flying hand eye coordination dominates over these factors and they aren't even noticed.
Hope this helps,
LD is more the expert on this subject b/c he's used both extensively. I use the FSSB currently and I have used LDs NXT briefly. However I have examined the mechanical workings of each and studied spring dampened responses in Control theory classes.
Basically the NXT allows for smooth accurate control. The gimbal springs are tensioned against each other which leads to an almost neutral pull force progression throughout its range of motion. However the light springs do little to offset or dampen the weight of the stick handle itself. Meaning that inputs are prone to overshoot before the muscles in the hand and forearm dampen out the input. For leading this is really no problem at all as the Boss is moving the stick so slowly and carefully that the handle can't build any momentum. However for wing flying its a little slap dash. Now don't misunderstand its still head and shoulders above stock gimbals due to its tight tolerances and hall sensors. Also the overshoot is something that could probably be corrected with stronger NXT springs, which either the maker or someone on the Cougar World Forums sells I can't remember exactly who right now- bottom line they are a standard linear spring of about a 3/8" dia. coil and 2.5" length which you can easily find online at whatever spring force you want!
The FSSB can also be thought of as spring mounted except the spring and dampening are built into the mounting plate itself. The plate goes thru a very slight plastic deformation which allows the top of the handle to move about 3-5mm when about 20lbs of force is applied at the point of the middle and ring fingers. To the naked eye the movement is almost non-existant, this sucker is sprung TIGHT. This means inputs quickly stop with almost zero overshoot. Its absolutely magical for wing and solo flying. It reads your mind, granted when you first use it you'll want to over control. However, once you get over the over-controlling you'll be able to go from the subtle to full deflection inputs with complete precision- took me about 5 flight hours to get to where I was flying better than with a stock Cougar.
Now it can't be all sunshine mind you. The FSSB is not the best choice for leading. I would consider it better than stock gimbals but only slightly (each has its own unique issues). The tight spring force of the FSSB prohibits a completely smooth and consistent pull due to the decreasing precision of the good ol' M1 human forearm as force is increased, and limited "feel" feedback. Keep in mind when wing flying hand eye coordination dominates over these factors and they aren't even noticed.
Hope this helps,
Doesn't the leader of the USAF Thunderbirds(I started to type "real" but that sounded disrespectful to you guys) have a similar feel to his stick? I know the FSSB is supposed to replicate the real F-16 as closely as possible...Burner wrote: The FSSB is not the best choice for leading. I would consider it better than stock gimbals but only slightly (each has its own unique issues). The tight spring force of the FSSB prohibits a completely smooth and consistent pull due to the decreasing precision of the good ol' M1 human forearm as force is increased (limited "feel" feedback doesn't help either).
Without trashing the stock stick too much (it's the better choice in the first place no matter what), I'd pick the FSSB to lead with any day if the NXT was not an option.
It's very close to simulating the real F-16 and just as in real life, many pilots who were used to fly mechanical flight controls systems had problems making the transition to the F-16 and it's fly-by-wire during training. It's a completely different technique in controlling the airplane. Little force feedback, but more tension and flying intuitively. You tell (or think) what you want the airplane to do instead actually moving flight controls and "sampling" for amplitude in control deflections.
You cannot go wrong with either of the mods by IJ (NXT) or Realsimulator (FSSB), although the FSSB wins in my book for all-round ability, less likelihood of breakdowns and realism.
The first step regardless is to acquire a Cougar. You have to buy one if you ever plan on modding one and even in its retail state, I'd prefer it over any other stick!
As far as real-life force feedback goes, the Thunderbirds fly with heavy nose-down trim. Basically, each pilot is pulling over 20 lbs of pressure on the stick allowing them to always have positive back pressure, even over the top in loops and other areas when the stick would feel "sloppy" otherwise. And not to be forgotten in the comparison between virtual and real is the "seat of the pants" force feeback or load factor a real pilot experiences that we simply don't have when flying on a computer.
LD
It's very close to simulating the real F-16 and just as in real life, many pilots who were used to fly mechanical flight controls systems had problems making the transition to the F-16 and it's fly-by-wire during training. It's a completely different technique in controlling the airplane. Little force feedback, but more tension and flying intuitively. You tell (or think) what you want the airplane to do instead actually moving flight controls and "sampling" for amplitude in control deflections.
You cannot go wrong with either of the mods by IJ (NXT) or Realsimulator (FSSB), although the FSSB wins in my book for all-round ability, less likelihood of breakdowns and realism.
The first step regardless is to acquire a Cougar. You have to buy one if you ever plan on modding one and even in its retail state, I'd prefer it over any other stick!
As far as real-life force feedback goes, the Thunderbirds fly with heavy nose-down trim. Basically, each pilot is pulling over 20 lbs of pressure on the stick allowing them to always have positive back pressure, even over the top in loops and other areas when the stick would feel "sloppy" otherwise. And not to be forgotten in the comparison between virtual and real is the "seat of the pants" force feeback or load factor a real pilot experiences that we simply don't have when flying on a computer.
LD
Summer Thunder is a great book! Very insightful and one of the best Thunderbird books I know of. We do fly with nose-down trim. We actually have it pre-programmed in our Cougar profile to a "set value", so that you're constantly flying with positive feel whenever the trim is "connected". We don't use any trim in LOMAC, it's a curve modifier through the programming tool Foxy for the Kitty.Gunner wrote:LD-
I just read that today in "Summer Thunder"(thanks for the recommendation BTW)
Do you guys set your trim nose down also?
When are you trying out?
LD
I've only been practicing for a month now, and three weeks of that was with AI. My current setup lets me set #1 on autopilot and I follow on my LAN - much better for speed control, & I can have him bank & such. I may be over-critcal of myself, but I want to be confidant I'm not going to mess you guys up when I tryout! No, I want to be sure I can impress the crap out of you...Give me some time, I've never flown formation b4, but I don't do anything halfway - you will see me soon.
