The blunderbirds!!

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maximmelman
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:13 am

The blunderbirds!!

Post by maximmelman » Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:43 am

Thinking of starting a real life exhibition team called the blunderbirds, flying cessna 152 or 172's in texas. The manuevers will include the knive edge pass straight into the ground :shock: , the diamond loop and fallout at the top :shock: , the max g turn at 2 g's :D , the trail to diamond roll followed by the sneak pass :lol: and the high speed pass followed by the high performance climb to 800 ft or whatever altitude you make it to before you stall.lol :lol: im flight lead who wants to join?!!!lol
Funky
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:54 pm
Location: Southern California

Post by Funky » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:52 am

LOL I will :lol:

Man, if you have never flown a 152, you'll be amazed by the capability of those little things. Those things can give you quite an unexpected ride, considering Gs etc. Keep in mind that the most Cessnas, including C 152, have a G limit of + 4 and – 4 Gs. I personally have flown the 152 aerobat, and have done some good stuff with it. Of course nothing like aerobatics, but stuff likes rolls. I’ve done climbs where my climb rate has gone as high as 2000 ft/min. and as far as knife edge goes, you can give 152 quite a bit of rudder and a lot of opposite bank and still fly straight without any serious problem other than bleeding off airspeed. I do it sometimes when I want to show my passenger something that’s directly underneath the airplane, and yet I want to keep the same heading. On the other hand though, performing some of tougher maneuvers in Cessnas, for example rolls, can be quite a bit different from performing them in F-16s.
I’ll use rolling in a 152 as an example now. There are way too many things to worry about when doing such stuff with 152s. First you have to be way up there, like 5000ft AGL, at least. secondly. You should always have a safe airspeed, because you don’t want to suddenly start dropping out of sky. You must also keep at least 1 G throughout the entire maneuver since the engine is gravity fed ( does not have a fuel pump.) Another thing is that the roll rate is not too great, but better than some others for example the 172; however, you will still have a huge nose down later in the roll on in the 152. You must also keep in mind that if you're blew the maneuvering speed (104kt in 152) you will not have a chance of structural damage in case you pull too many Gs, as you will stall prior to reaching the max G tolerance of the aircraft. However you don’t want to stall, especially because when you're in a very unusual attitude. Doing so may result in a spin, and if you're inverted, that'll be an even worse one. Now if you go past 104 KT, you're past the maneuvering speed and in danger of over stressing the plane, meaning that if you pull a little too much on the yoke, you might overstress the airplane, and remember that you don’t even have a G meter in that thing. Also, you might even have a chance of over-speeding the airplane if you don’t start the maneuver correctly.
Now when you go about doing this maneuver you have to give the airplane a good amount of throttle where you're sitting at about 90 KTs. Then you pull up to 25-20 deg nose up and then you give it a full aileron deflection. Well, I can tell you right now that you cant sustain 1 G the way you want it, so you'll be pulling a bit more on the yoke since you want to be safe. Until 90 deg bank everything is normal, but when you go past it, you'll have to cut the throttle and apply carb heat, and then continue with the roll and the pull. When you get to 180 bank, you will find yourself about 45 to 50 deg nose down... inverted. What you will also realize is that your acceleration is equivalent to a catapult take off. Now seriously, I'll tell you that when you look at that needle you'll see a movement you've never seen before. Well right now you're going down and you're still pulling for a more nose down attitude. Your airspeed is increasing and you need more AoA to kill it, but yet you don’t want to have an even steeper nose down attitude. When you pass the 270th degree bank you'll be very close to 90 deg nose down. At that point, you will see that your airplane is having fun with the nose down and does not really want to get back to level attitude. You will have to finish the entire 360 degrees with minimal pull. When you complete the roll, you’ll have a very very steep nose down, So you'll start to pull harder on the yoke since you want to get back up to level attitude. Now if you're past 104kts, you'll have to be real careful not to overstress by pulling too many Gs, and yet not encounter a flutter since your airspeed is reaching Vne. If you're below 104kts however, you shouldn’t worry about the overstress factor, but you'll hear the stall horn if you pull too hard, and that WILL freak you out. When you finally become level and stabilized, close the carb hear and set the power level, you will realize that the person sitting next to you had the most fun of his life, and he/she wants to do it again, but whether if you want to do it again... hmm... I'm not sure about that part :?

I did this when I had done rolls in "real" aerobatic airplanes, and I only did this twice in the C152. I think those will be the last times that I will try that in a C-152 ever again in my life.

As you may notice, there is way too much pilot work load involved in doing such a maneuver in a plane like C-152. Not sure if you would want to try this, but I did it because I wanted to be prepared for it, given the chance that I might need to deal with it one day in this type.
I've seen pilots do aerobatic demonstrations in real life in Cessna 150s and 152s, and they do it very nicely (of course nothing like the "real" aerobatic demonstrations) but I think they can only do it because they do it everyday. :D

As I said, I'll consider joining your team, but there's only one thing, I'll do it only if you keep the "immoral" option selected (in real) :wink: .

Funky

PS. excuse my crippled English as I was half asleep when I wrote this.
maximmelman
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:13 am

Post by maximmelman » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:15 pm

Hey funky!!!!!!
I have been a bit suprised by these planes myself when i started flying i was always underestimating them. such as the time when i was doing short field takeoffs and the instructor said i was wasn't being agressive enough. He proceeded to pull the plane into what seemed to be a 7o degree climb angle and the little plane shot up to about 1000ft from the runway in a matter of seconds i was astonished. I'm not the type of pilot who wants to push my limits particular if inexperienced, i still woulnd't do it. An f 16 is another story if any of these sims are any indication they seem way easier and dumb to fly than any civilian airplane, plus to navigate all they have to do is follow a little arrow they don't have to figure anything out. I was always trying to do zero g maneavers just to float a little bit or pull at least a few g's just to have fun but was scared to do it. I'm sure this little plane can take a lot more than any of us think it can but i don't want to find out without an ejection seat. :lol: It probably couldn't take off wth one installed anywayLol!!! I don't know what these military pilots are so proud about, jeez if they mess up all they have to do is eject us GA pilot's DIE!!!! :shock: I started flying in a Piper Cub on a grass runway in the country, my instructor was a former tomcat backseater and A-4 driver. Thats another beautiful plane, i once pulled over to get a sandwich while waiting for it to stall, sometimes it would never happen :D Beautiful!!!!! You could go through a Jack in the box drive through with it :lol: But the C 152, 172 is one beautiful plane i think just about any pilot has a soft spot in his heart for it including Chuck Yeager!!! :D
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